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Re: Window Heater

From John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: Window Heater
Date 2017-02-15 10:45 -0600
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <o820et$mc9$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <8d064474-a349-4b2d-8a9e-0eca5c881121@googlegroups.com> <o7vkvg$3bo$1@dont-email.me> <43c1a6b7-1ed1-4822-9a4f-e40c1685ae21@googlegroups.com> <o7vvcg$cd9$1@dont-email.me> <o800kj$eo7$3@dont-email.me>

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On 2/14/2017 4:35 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 2/14/2017 5:14 PM, John S wrote:
>> On 2/14/2017 2:53 PM, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 2:16:49 PM UTC-5, rickman wrote:
>>>> On 2/14/2017 9:56 AM, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 9:32:52 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 12:52:10 AM UTC-8, rickman wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/12/2017 2:07 AM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 10:02:38 PM UTC-8, rickman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have you considered that, rather than a draft, your chill is due to
>>>>>>>> radiated heat loss?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Radiated heat loss through 3/4 inch of Styrofoam???  Really?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure.  Long-wavelength IR; things that look cloudy white at visible
>>>>>> wavelengths
>>>>>> are transparent to longer wavelengths.   You can't see UV light,
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> the human eye lens is a cloudy white in that part of the spectrum.
>>>>>> Good insulation has to be opaque.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unless, the styrofoam is the foil-backed kind?
>>>>>
>>>>> You're on the right track (as is krw).
>>>>>
>>>>> A couple years ago I investigated improving the efficiency of a
>>>>> refrigerator by adding external insulation.  Measuring the temperature
>>>>> differential across the insulation allowed measurement and calculation
>>>>> of the actual loss.
>>>>>
>>>>> It took 4" of rigid foam insulation[1] to produce the same temperature
>>>>> differential as was achieved with 1/2" of foil-backed polyisocyanurate
>>>>> foam.[2]
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]http://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-FOAMULAR-250-2-in-x-48-in-x-8-ft-R-10-Scored-Squared-Edge-Insulation-Sheathing-52DD/202085962
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [2]http://www.homedepot.com/p/R-Matte-Rmax-Plus-3-1-2-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-R-3-2-Polyisocyanurate-Rigid-Foam-Insulation-Board-754404/100572981
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, the foil barrier is stunningly useful.  (The foil has to be
>>>>> installed
>>>>> facing the heat source. Anything contacting the foil eliminates the
>>>>> benefit,
>>>>> since heat is then simply conducted straight through.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I applied this insight to the exact drafty window problem Rick's
>>>>> solving.
>>>>> Two aluminized car dashboard shades, held in place at night with
>>>>> tension
>>>>> rods[3] works amazingly well.
>>>>>
>>>>> [3]https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-Spring-Tension-Rod-White/50015124
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It was a cheap experiment.
>>>>>
>>>>> The soft dashboard shades were $1 each at the local DollarTree.
>>>>> They're not
>>>>> fully opaque--enough daylight shines through to yield useful
>>>>> illumination,
>>>>> should you choose to leave them up on a super-cold day.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's still a draft, but markedly less.  Rick will still probably
>>>>> prefer
>>>>> his heater.  200w for one heater, though, is as almost much as my
>>>>> whole house
>>>>> (280w, average draw last month).
>>>>
>>>> Your number for electricity usage is a bit low.  My usage last bill was
>>>> 2350 kW average.  1692 kWhr / 720 hr = 2.35 kW costing under $200.  Was
>>>> your bill in the $20 range?  If not I suspect you missed a decimal
>>>> point.
>>>
>>> Why do you seem never to believe other people?  I used 207 kWhr,
>>> and yes, paid about $20 plus $10 service charge.
>>
>> He doesn't know. His numbers and arithmetic are inconsistent. You should
>> not be surprised that he does not believe you.
>
> What is inconsistent in my numbers or math?
>

You say 2350kW (kW*hr assumed) billed but you used 1692kW*hr for your 
calculation. And what purpose does the 2.35kW calculation serve?

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Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 22:02 -0500
  Re: Window Heater bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-11 20:57 -0800
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 01:02 -0500
      Re: Window Heater whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 23:07 -0800
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 03:52 -0500
          Re: Window Heater whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:32 -0800
            Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 21:42 -0500
              Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 10:04 -0600
                Re: Window Heater makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-02-13 10:17 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 15:30 -0500
                Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 15:39 -0600
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 20:28 -0500
                Re: Window Heater krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-13 20:48 -0500
                Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 13:47 -0800
            Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 06:56 -0800
              Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-14 07:17 -0800
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 13:20 -0800
                Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-14 16:17 -0800
                Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-14 16:28 -0800
                Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-14 17:42 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 21:18 -0500
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 19:20 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 22:42 -0500
                Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-15 06:51 -0800
                Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-15 06:06 -0800
                Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-15 06:54 -0800
                Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-15 09:15 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 15:02 -0500
                Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-15 16:38 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 19:50 -0500
                Re: Window Heater Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-17 11:18 +0000
                Re: Window Heater Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-16 08:28 +0000
              Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 14:07 -0500
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 12:57 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:32 -0500
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 19:12 -0800
              Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 14:16 -0500
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 12:53 -0800
                Re: Window Heater John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> - 2017-02-14 16:14 -0600
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:35 -0500
                Re: Window Heater John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> - 2017-02-15 10:45 -0600
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 15:06 -0500
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 16:46 -0500
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:34 -0500
      Re: Window Heater bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 04:57 -0800
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:19 -0500
      Re: Window Heater Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-02-12 10:42 -0800
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:30 -0500
    Re: Window Heater Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-12 08:45 +0000
      Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 03:57 -0500
        Re: Window Heater Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-12 09:34 +0000
  Re: Window Heater Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2017-02-11 23:52 -0600
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 01:07 -0500
      Re: Window Heater Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-14 10:40 +0000
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:00 -0500
          Re: Window Heater John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> - 2017-02-14 16:17 -0600
            Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-14 14:28 -0800
            Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:36 -0500
  Re: Window Heater Mikko OH2HVJ <mikko.syrjalahti@nospam.fi> - 2017-02-12 14:54 +0200
    Re: Window Heater Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-12 08:56 -0700
      Re: Window Heater Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-02-12 20:14 +0200
        Re: Window Heater Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-11 00:30 -0500
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:56 -0500
  Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-12 06:35 -0800
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:01 -0500
      Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-12 17:29 -0800
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 21:37 -0500
          Re: Window Heater Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-02-13 15:08 -0600
            Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 13:32 -0800
  Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-12 08:20 -0800
  Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-12 11:48 -0600
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:03 -0500
      Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 09:58 -0600
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 15:33 -0500
          Re: Window Heater Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-02-13 15:10 -0600
            Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 13:36 -0800
            Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 15:40 -0600
            Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 20:34 -0500
          Re: Window Heater krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-13 20:52 -0500
  Re: Window Heater Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-02-12 12:02 -0600
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:05 -0500
      Re: Window Heater Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-02-14 17:49 -0600
  Re: Window Heater bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-02-12 13:06 -0500
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:05 -0500
  Re: Window Heater Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-02-13 11:21 +1100
  Re: Window Heater krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-12 19:28 -0500
  Re: Window Heater Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> - 2017-02-12 21:57 -0500
    Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 10:01 -0600
  Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 13:49 -0800
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 20:36 -0500
  Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 19:44 -0500
    Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-01 17:33 -0800

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