Groups > sci.electronics.design > #447665

Re: Window Heater

From	John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: Window Heater
Date	2017-02-14 16:17 -0600
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<o7vvih$cd9$2@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<o7oj4r$9vu$1@dont-email.me> <CpOdnSRg_MKBZQLFnZ2dnUU7-TGdnZ2d@giganews.com> <o7otv1$3dj$1@dont-email.me> <o7umr7$64j$2@gioia.aioe.org> <o7unu1$n64$1@dont-email.me>

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On 2/14/2017 5:00 AM, rickman wrote:
> On 2/14/2017 5:40 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 12/02/2017 06:07, rickman wrote:
>>> On 2/12/2017 12:52 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>>> rickman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I sit directly under a window much of the time (don't suggest I move,
>>>>> there just isn't another practical option).  When it is cold the
>>>>> window
>>>>> has a draft that is downright brutal.
>>>>
>>>> Try facing the styrofoam with kitchen aluminum foil (unless you want
>>>> light
>>>> to come through, of course.)  It will be an IR reflector, and may
>>>> substantially improve the insulation effect of the styrofoam.
>>
>> Not always substantial unless radiative transfer is significant (usually
>> at round 30C temperature difference) but it prevents hot spots and cold
>> spots by equalising the temperature at the radiation barrier.
>>>
>>> That would help if there was much temperature difference.  But the
>>> inside is only three degrees (F) different from the rest of the room.
>>> Maybe the temperature difference on the other side is greater.  But 3/4
>>> inches of Styrofoam is a *lot* of insulation.  I believe it is
>>> equivalent to four inches of fiberglass.
>>
>> There is always some heat loss with any real materials, but even a
>> relatively thin piece of styrofoam is warm to the touch so I don't see
>> how it can support a noticeable draft unless you have liquid air on the
>> other side of your window. How cold is cold in this context?
>
> Hard to measure the temperature of something on the other side of a
> piece of Styrofoam.  If you check, you will find there is a slow moving
> draft off your walls.  The fact that your hand will warm up a piece of
> Styrofoam means nothing compared to the small amount of heat required to
> warm air.  Styrofoam feels warm to the touch for the same reason room
> temperature marble feels cold to the touch, thermal mass, not temperature.
>
>
>>> I think the insulation is very good at this point.  The problem is there
>>> will always be *some* heat loss and it doesn't take very much at all to
>>> create a draft albeit a small one.  The issue is not so much that there
>>> is a draft even, it wouldn't be noticed if I didn't have my back right
>>> up to it.
>>
>> Divert the draft to one side then?
>
> That's already been discussed.
>
>
>>> Hmmmm. the heater is toasty!
>>
>> One which might do what you want is the twinwall polycarbonate used with
>> the channels running horizontal as an inner insulating layer. I think
>> you need to figure out where the draft is actually coming from.
>>
>> Something isn't right here.
>
> If you think the draft isn't from the cold coming through the wall and
> window, then what isn't right is your thinking.  We aren't talking about
> Niagra Falls.  It is a very slow moving draft only a few degrees cooler
> than the room temperature.  Heck, it might not even be that the air is
> cooler than the rest of the room.  It may well just be that the air is
> constantly moving over my shoulders disturbing the warm boundary layer
> of air around my body.
>
> It's much better with a warm draft replacing the warm layers of air
> around my body.
>

Have you tried putting on a coat?

Thread

Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 22:02 -0500
  Re: Window Heater bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-11 20:57 -0800
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 01:02 -0500
      Re: Window Heater whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 23:07 -0800
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 03:52 -0500
          Re: Window Heater whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:32 -0800
            Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 21:42 -0500
              Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 10:04 -0600
                Re: Window Heater makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-02-13 10:17 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 15:30 -0500
                Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 15:39 -0600
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 20:28 -0500
                Re: Window Heater krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-13 20:48 -0500
                Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 13:47 -0800
            Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 06:56 -0800
              Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-14 07:17 -0800
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 13:20 -0800
                Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-14 16:17 -0800
                Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-14 16:28 -0800
                Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-14 17:42 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 21:18 -0500
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 19:20 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 22:42 -0500
                Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-15 06:51 -0800
                Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-15 06:06 -0800
                Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-15 06:54 -0800
                Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-15 09:15 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 15:02 -0500
                Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-15 16:38 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 19:50 -0500
                Re: Window Heater Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-17 11:18 +0000
                Re: Window Heater Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-16 08:28 +0000
              Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 14:07 -0500
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 12:57 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:32 -0500
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 19:12 -0800
              Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 14:16 -0500
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 12:53 -0800
                Re: Window Heater John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> - 2017-02-14 16:14 -0600
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:35 -0500
                Re: Window Heater John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> - 2017-02-15 10:45 -0600
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 15:06 -0500
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 16:46 -0500
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:34 -0500
      Re: Window Heater bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 04:57 -0800
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:19 -0500
      Re: Window Heater Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-02-12 10:42 -0800
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:30 -0500
    Re: Window Heater Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-12 08:45 +0000
      Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 03:57 -0500
        Re: Window Heater Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-12 09:34 +0000
  Re: Window Heater Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2017-02-11 23:52 -0600
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 01:07 -0500
      Re: Window Heater Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-14 10:40 +0000
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:00 -0500
          Re: Window Heater John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> - 2017-02-14 16:17 -0600
            Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-14 14:28 -0800
            Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:36 -0500
  Re: Window Heater Mikko OH2HVJ <mikko.syrjalahti@nospam.fi> - 2017-02-12 14:54 +0200
    Re: Window Heater Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-12 08:56 -0700
      Re: Window Heater Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-02-12 20:14 +0200
        Re: Window Heater Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-11 00:30 -0500
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:56 -0500
  Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-12 06:35 -0800
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:01 -0500
      Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-12 17:29 -0800
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 21:37 -0500
          Re: Window Heater Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-02-13 15:08 -0600
            Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 13:32 -0800
  Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-12 08:20 -0800
  Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-12 11:48 -0600
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:03 -0500
      Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 09:58 -0600
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 15:33 -0500
          Re: Window Heater Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-02-13 15:10 -0600
            Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 13:36 -0800
            Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 15:40 -0600
            Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 20:34 -0500
          Re: Window Heater krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-13 20:52 -0500
  Re: Window Heater Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-02-12 12:02 -0600
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:05 -0500
      Re: Window Heater Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-02-14 17:49 -0600
  Re: Window Heater bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-02-12 13:06 -0500
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:05 -0500
  Re: Window Heater Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-02-13 11:21 +1100
  Re: Window Heater krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-12 19:28 -0500
  Re: Window Heater Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> - 2017-02-12 21:57 -0500
    Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 10:01 -0600
  Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 13:49 -0800
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 20:36 -0500
  Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 19:44 -0500
    Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-01 17:33 -0800

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