Groups > sci.electronics.design > #447630

Re: Window Heater

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: Window Heater
Date	2017-02-14 06:00 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<o7unu1$n64$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<o7oj4r$9vu$1@dont-email.me> <CpOdnSRg_MKBZQLFnZ2dnUU7-TGdnZ2d@giganews.com> <o7otv1$3dj$1@dont-email.me> <o7umr7$64j$2@gioia.aioe.org>

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On 2/14/2017 5:40 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 12/02/2017 06:07, rickman wrote:
>> On 2/12/2017 12:52 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>> rickman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I sit directly under a window much of the time (don't suggest I move,
>>>> there just isn't another practical option).  When it is cold the window
>>>> has a draft that is downright brutal.
>>>
>>> Try facing the styrofoam with kitchen aluminum foil (unless you want
>>> light
>>> to come through, of course.)  It will be an IR reflector, and may
>>> substantially improve the insulation effect of the styrofoam.
>
> Not always substantial unless radiative transfer is significant (usually
> at round 30C temperature difference) but it prevents hot spots and cold
> spots by equalising the temperature at the radiation barrier.
>>
>> That would help if there was much temperature difference.  But the
>> inside is only three degrees (F) different from the rest of the room.
>> Maybe the temperature difference on the other side is greater.  But 3/4
>> inches of Styrofoam is a *lot* of insulation.  I believe it is
>> equivalent to four inches of fiberglass.
>
> There is always some heat loss with any real materials, but even a
> relatively thin piece of styrofoam is warm to the touch so I don't see
> how it can support a noticeable draft unless you have liquid air on the
> other side of your window. How cold is cold in this context?

Hard to measure the temperature of something on the other side of a 
piece of Styrofoam.  If you check, you will find there is a slow moving 
draft off your walls.  The fact that your hand will warm up a piece of 
Styrofoam means nothing compared to the small amount of heat required to 
warm air.  Styrofoam feels warm to the touch for the same reason room 
temperature marble feels cold to the touch, thermal mass, not temperature.

>> I think the insulation is very good at this point.  The problem is there
>> will always be *some* heat loss and it doesn't take very much at all to
>> create a draft albeit a small one.  The issue is not so much that there
>> is a draft even, it wouldn't be noticed if I didn't have my back right
>> up to it.
>
> Divert the draft to one side then?

That's already been discussed.

>> Hmmmm. the heater is toasty!
>
> One which might do what you want is the twinwall polycarbonate used with
> the channels running horizontal as an inner insulating layer. I think
> you need to figure out where the draft is actually coming from.
>
> Something isn't right here.

If you think the draft isn't from the cold coming through the wall and 
window, then what isn't right is your thinking.  We aren't talking about 
Niagra Falls.  It is a very slow moving draft only a few degrees cooler 
than the room temperature.  Heck, it might not even be that the air is 
cooler than the rest of the room.  It may well just be that the air is 
constantly moving over my shoulders disturbing the warm boundary layer 
of air around my body.

It's much better with a warm draft replacing the warm layers of air 
around my body.

-- 

Rick C

Thread

Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 22:02 -0500
  Re: Window Heater bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-11 20:57 -0800
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 01:02 -0500
      Re: Window Heater whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 23:07 -0800
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 03:52 -0500
          Re: Window Heater whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:32 -0800
            Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 21:42 -0500
              Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 10:04 -0600
                Re: Window Heater makolber@yahoo.com - 2017-02-13 10:17 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 15:30 -0500
                Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 15:39 -0600
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 20:28 -0500
                Re: Window Heater krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-13 20:48 -0500
                Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 13:47 -0800
            Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 06:56 -0800
              Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-14 07:17 -0800
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 13:20 -0800
                Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-14 16:17 -0800
                Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-14 16:28 -0800
                Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-14 17:42 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 21:18 -0500
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 19:20 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 22:42 -0500
                Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-15 06:51 -0800
                Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-15 06:06 -0800
                Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-02-15 06:54 -0800
                Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-15 09:15 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 15:02 -0500
                Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-15 16:38 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 19:50 -0500
                Re: Window Heater Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-17 11:18 +0000
                Re: Window Heater Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-16 08:28 +0000
              Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 14:07 -0500
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 12:57 -0800
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:32 -0500
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 19:12 -0800
              Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 14:16 -0500
                Re: Window Heater dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-02-14 12:53 -0800
                Re: Window Heater John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> - 2017-02-14 16:14 -0600
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:35 -0500
                Re: Window Heater John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> - 2017-02-15 10:45 -0600
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 15:06 -0500
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 16:46 -0500
                Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:34 -0500
      Re: Window Heater bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-02-12 04:57 -0800
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:19 -0500
      Re: Window Heater Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-02-12 10:42 -0800
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:30 -0500
    Re: Window Heater Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-12 08:45 +0000
      Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 03:57 -0500
        Re: Window Heater Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-02-12 09:34 +0000
  Re: Window Heater Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2017-02-11 23:52 -0600
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 01:07 -0500
      Re: Window Heater Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2017-02-14 10:40 +0000
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:00 -0500
          Re: Window Heater John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org> - 2017-02-14 16:17 -0600
            Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-14 14:28 -0800
            Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:36 -0500
  Re: Window Heater Mikko OH2HVJ <mikko.syrjalahti@nospam.fi> - 2017-02-12 14:54 +0200
    Re: Window Heater Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-02-12 08:56 -0700
      Re: Window Heater Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2017-02-12 20:14 +0200
        Re: Window Heater Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-02-11 00:30 -0500
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 18:56 -0500
  Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-12 06:35 -0800
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:01 -0500
      Re: Window Heater "dcaster@krl.org" <dcaster@krl.org> - 2017-02-12 17:29 -0800
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 21:37 -0500
          Re: Window Heater Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-02-13 15:08 -0600
            Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 13:32 -0800
  Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-12 08:20 -0800
  Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-12 11:48 -0600
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:03 -0500
      Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 09:58 -0600
        Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 15:33 -0500
          Re: Window Heater Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2017-02-13 15:10 -0600
            Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 13:36 -0800
            Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 15:40 -0600
            Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 20:34 -0500
          Re: Window Heater krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-13 20:52 -0500
  Re: Window Heater Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-02-12 12:02 -0600
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:05 -0500
      Re: Window Heater Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> - 2017-02-14 17:49 -0600
  Re: Window Heater bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-02-12 13:06 -0500
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 19:05 -0500
  Re: Window Heater Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-02-13 11:21 +1100
  Re: Window Heater krw@notreal.com - 2017-02-12 19:28 -0500
  Re: Window Heater Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> - 2017-02-12 21:57 -0500
    Re: Window Heater "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-02-13 10:01 -0600
  Re: Window Heater Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-02-13 13:49 -0800
    Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 20:36 -0500
  Re: Window Heater rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 19:44 -0500
    Re: Window Heater George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-03-01 17:33 -0800

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