Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars

Newsgroups	rec.arts.sf.written
From	djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject	Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars
Message-ID	<nwLG0v.6sL@kithrup.com> (permalink)
Date	2015-10-21 23:31 +0000
References	<mvufha01bt9@news3.newsguy.com> <MPG.309112433b139234989bd1@news.eternal-september.org> <nwKnoK.r4D@kithrup.com> <MPG.3091d91fe0aa423c989bd3@news.eternal-september.org>
Organization	Kithrup Enterprises, Ld.

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In article <MPG.3091d91fe0aa423c989bd3@news.eternal-september.org>,
J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>In article <nwKnoK.r4D@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says...
>> 
>> In article <MPG.309112433b139234989bd1@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >In article <nwJy24.12K1@kithrup.com>, djheydt@kithrup.com says...
>> >> 
>> >> In article <562708a0$0$1703$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
>> >> Dimensional Traveler  <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>> >> >On 10/19/2015 7:17 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >> >> In article <n041tp$v9u$1@dont-email.me>,
>> >> >> David Johnston  <David@block.net> wrote:
>> >> >>> On 10/19/2015 6:13 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> >> >>>> On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 7:30:07 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J
>Heydt wrote:
>> >> >>>>> In article <n01tb2$uei$1@dont-email.me>,
>> >> >>>>> William Vetter  <mdhangton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Most people don't realize that irrigation salinates soil over the
>> >> >>>>>> course of decades as trace salts in the irrigation water are
>> >> >>>>>> concentrated, after which more irrigation water is required to flush
>> >> >>>>>> out the salts before planting.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>> In the ancient world, this was never a problem in the Nile valley,
>> >> >>>>>> because the river would flood its banks every year to do this
>> >> >>>>>> automatically, up until the Aswan Dam was built.  But it was
>a big deal
>> >> >>>>>> with the Tigris & Euphrates, which is why the Fertile
>Crescent isn't as
>> >> >>>>>> fertile as it originally was.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> I knew the Crescent had deteriorated over the centuries because
>> >> >>>>> of salts in the soil, the result of irrigation.  I didn't realize
>> >> >>>>> perchlorates were involved.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I don't believe he was trying to say they were - just that the same
>> >> >>> accumulation of ordinary salt that caused problems on Earth
>could happen
>> >> >>> with perchlorates on Mars if we thought that just washing them out with
>> >> >>> water would solve the problem.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> John Savard
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Just washing out salt with water DOES work.  It just takes a whole
>> >> >>> heaping lot of water.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That drains away somewhere.  If you're irrigating the soil with
>> >> >> canals full of slightly salty water, then it builds up right
>> >> >> where you're trying to grow things.
>> >> >>
>> >> >It drains away to where the perchlorate eating bacteria is I believe is 
>> >> >the unstated part of the argument.
>> >> 
>> >> Yup.  Find your perchlorate-eating bacteria,* put them down in the
>> >> bottomlands, flood the uplands with water, and wait.
>> >> 
>> >> _____
>> >> *Mrs. Beeton never did actually say "First catch your rabbit."
>> >> Her recipe began something like "Select your rabbit, and be sure
>> >> it is young and tender."
>> >
>> >The perchlorate eating bacteria seem to be around wherever there is 
>> >perchlorate and water.  They aren't eating the perchlorate in the 
>> >Atacama Desert for example, where concentrations can be as high as .25 
>> >percent.
>> >
>> >Note that travel through the Atacama is not the instant perchlorate 
>> >death that the "Perchlorate will prevent Mars exploration" people seem 
>> >to think it should be.
>> 
>> Well, no, as long as the human explorers stay inside their
>> spacesits and clean off thoroughly before entering the habitat.
>> But we're talking about trying to terraform the place.
>
>Friend of mine spent a good bit of time in the Atacama.  No spacesuit in 
>sight.  And he's far from dead.

Hm.  I assume he's an astronomer?

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

Thread

Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-17 14:44 -0700
  Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-18 00:37 +0000
    Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-17 22:23 -0700
      Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-17 22:47 -0700
        Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-18 17:24 -0600
          Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-19 00:51 +0000
            Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-18 21:12 -0400
              Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-19 02:02 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-18 20:02 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-18 23:34 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-19 04:32 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-19 11:28 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-19 18:44 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-20 03:05 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-19 04:31 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-19 16:50 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-18 23:16 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-19 04:34 +0000
          Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-19 12:25 +0800
          Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 01:34 -0700
      Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 01:01 -0400
        Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-10-19 01:25 -0400
          Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-10-19 06:00 +0000
            Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-19 00:15 -0600
            Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-10-19 02:39 -0400
              Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-19 05:32 -0700
              Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-19 13:21 -0700
        Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-19 13:22 +0000
          Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-19 08:04 -0700
          Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-19 17:13 -0700
            Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-10-19 18:31 -0600
              Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-20 02:17 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-10-19 20:47 -0600
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-20 04:03 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-20 00:33 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "John F. Eldredge" <john@jfeldredge.com> - 2015-10-20 23:23 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-20 17:55 -0600
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars mzenier@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) - 2015-10-20 17:00 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-20 20:38 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-21 04:06 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-21 04:09 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-21 13:19 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-21 18:17 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-21 23:31 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-21 23:22 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-21 20:01 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-22 03:38 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-22 17:11 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-22 17:38 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-22 22:28 -0600
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-26 23:16 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-23 14:48 +0800
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-23 08:07 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-23 15:33 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-23 10:10 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2015-10-23 19:07 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Larry Moore <larry@wightman.ca> - 2015-10-24 12:56 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 10:57 -0500
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Anthony Frost <Vulch@vulch.org> - 2015-10-25 10:40 +0100
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-25 17:23 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 16:41 -0500
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2015-10-25 22:32 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-26 10:39 +0800
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 21:47 -0500
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-27 10:42 +0800
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-23 00:57 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-26 23:12 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-28 20:33 -0500
              Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 23:33 -0400
              Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-20 15:00 +0800
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-10-20 01:09 -0600
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 05:17 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 10:43 -0500
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 13:27 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 10:45 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-24 16:01 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2015-10-24 23:16 -0300
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-26 10:41 +0800
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Bill Gill <billnews2@cox.net> - 2015-10-25 08:37 -0500
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-25 14:10 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-25 09:43 -0500
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 11:19 -0500
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Bill Gill <billnews2@cox.net> - 2015-10-25 11:42 -0500
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-26 10:43 +0800
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Larry Moore <larry@wightman.ca> - 2015-10-25 18:18 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-25 12:54 -0600
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 12:07 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-25 17:32 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 19:49 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-26 10:47 +0800
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-26 03:52 -0600
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-27 10:44 +0800
        Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-19 17:10 -0700
          Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 22:02 -0400
          Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2015-10-20 05:07 +0000
            Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-20 01:27 -0400
              Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2015-10-20 21:17 +0000
          Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-20 03:00 -0700
            Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-20 11:20 -0700
              Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-20 11:49 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-21 03:13 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-10-21 08:21 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-10-21 17:29 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-10-21 22:05 -0500
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-26 23:03 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-27 08:37 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-27 19:28 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Larry Moore <larry@wightman.ca> - 2015-10-28 20:28 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-29 06:07 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2015-10-22 09:03 +0800
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-10-21 21:17 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-10-25 17:42 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-26 23:05 -0400
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars mzenier@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) - 2015-10-21 15:55 +0000
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 23:19 -0700
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-10-24 02:16 -0500
                Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-24 14:33 -0700
          Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Bill Gill <billnews2@cox.net> - 2015-10-21 08:13 -0500
      Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-19 16:42 -0400
        Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-19 17:15 -0700
          Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-10-19 20:46 -0400
          Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-10-20 02:18 +0000
            Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-20 11:15 -0700
            Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-10-20 18:00 -0600
              Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-10-20 20:44 -0400
    Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-20 14:51 -0700
  Re: Revisit issue of growing things on Mars Des <desmondkavanagh@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 09:59 -0700

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