Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet

From	Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net>
Newsgroups	comp.mobile.android, alt.internet.wireless, alt.os.linux
Subject	Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet
Date	2016-09-18 03:43 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<nrl2h2$168c$2@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <nrakc5$q9b$1@news.mixmin.net> <87y42ut88d.fsf@farble.dyndns.tv> <nrhipn$edb$1@news.mixmin.net> <87d1k2thdz.fsf@farble.dyndns.tv> <ydlgyqdt7i.fsf@UBEblock.psr.com>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 19:04:01 -0400, Winston wrote:

> Referring to a typical consumer-grade wireless router, I believe he
> meant that cloning a MAC address usually was to change the WAN MAC
> address, whereas he was discussing the WLAN MAC address, which (at the
> time he wrote that) he thought couldn't be changed without hardware
> mods.  

This is correct.

Everyone knows how to clone the "WAN MAC Address", which is as simply as
pressing a button and typing "DE:AD:BE:EF:CA:FE".

It's the WLAN MAC address which doesn't have a "clone" button in the
manufacturers' software/firmware.

> I think he has since learned that WLAN MAC addresses are, in
> general, set via software from saved configuration.

I think what Jeff Liebermann was saying was that, for *routers*, you can
change the WLAN MAC Address if you use the right custom firmware.

But we were talking about phones, so, Jeff also added that for Android
phones, you can change the WLAN MAC address if you're root using the
typical Linux commands we use all the time on Linux.

The situation would be likewise for jailbroken iOS phones, with the
exception that, in practice, Apple seems to prevent that with each iOS
upgrade, so, effecitvely, you can't change the WLAN MAC address easily on
an iOS phone.

> There are many consumer-class routers I've never dealt with, so I don't
> know if he's right in thinking that the manufacturer's firmware for some
> routers does not support changing the WLAN MAC address.

I got all my information from Jeff - who told me, a couple of years ago,
that the "clone" in the consumer-class routers is for the wrong MAC
address.

The only MAC address that matters, for this discussion, is the MAC address
that the poorly configured Android devices in the vicinity are *uploading*
to the Google PUblic database.

> Elsewhere I said I don't see this as big issue.  Even when the WLAN MAC
> address can be changed, in practice, for most routers out there, my
> impression is that once the router's been configured, the WLAN MAC
> address one sees at a particular location generally won't change unless
> the router gets replaced.

While what you're saying is true, that people don't change their WLAN Mac
addresses even if they could, I have used only Netgear and Linksys and
D-Link routers, and *none* of them have allowed me to change the one MAC
address that matters for this discussion, which is the MAC address that is
*uploaded* to the Google Public Database by poorly configured Android
devices in the vicinity.

The main question is:
1. Under what circumstances is an iOS or Android *phone's* MAC address
*uploaded* to the Google PUblic Database by poorly configured Android
devices in the vicinity?

2. How can someone *exploit* that fact to locate the phone?

Thread

How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 06:00 +0000
  Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-13 15:34 +0200
    Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-13 16:06 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-14 00:20 +0200
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-14 04:41 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-09-14 00:27 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-14 04:41 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-14 07:35 +0100
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-14 07:54 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-09-15 11:53 +0100
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet pamela <invalid@nospam.com> - 2016-09-17 14:28 +0100
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2016-09-17 21:30 +0100
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-15 08:45 -0700
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-15 08:51 -0700
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 19:30 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 18:43 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-16 20:08 +0100
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-17 09:17 +0100
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-17 17:27 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 02:12 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-19 15:42 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-19 16:33 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2016-09-19 17:42 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2016-09-19 18:41 +0100
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-20 03:21 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-16 13:04 -0700
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 20:23 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-15 08:31 -0700
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet AL <noemail@none.invalid.com> - 2016-09-15 09:49 -0700
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 19:33 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@invalid.es> - 2016-09-19 19:22 +0200
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 19:30 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-16 13:16 -0700
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 04:52 +0000
  Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2016-09-14 00:24 +0000
    Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-14 04:40 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet bruce <bruce@invalid.dyndns.tv.invalid> - 2016-09-14 18:41 -0400
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 19:56 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet bruce <bruce@invalid.dyndns.tv.invalid> - 2016-09-17 16:12 -0400
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Winston <wbe@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> - 2016-09-17 19:04 -0400
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 03:43 +0000
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 02:30 +0000
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-17 22:54 -0400
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 03:43 +0000
      Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Winston <wbe@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> - 2016-09-15 01:04 -0400
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 23:17 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-16 23:36 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 01:59 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 01:59 +0000
          Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-09-16 22:22 -0700
            Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 06:17 +0000
              Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 06:32 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-17 10:08 -0400
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-09-17 16:13 +0200
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 03:43 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 03:49 +0000
                Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-18 04:00 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 01:59 +0000
        Re: How to look up the GPS location of your MAC address or car on the Internet Horace Algier <horatio@horatio.net> - 2016-09-17 02:00 +0000

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