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Groups > comp.lang.c > #93705

Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write
Date 2016-09-18 00:06 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <nrkepr$ptn$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (14 earlier) <c9cb703c-db1b-4baa-9622-538aeaca5652@googlegroups.com> <lnk2ebzaxe.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <09cb4413-16a6-4b63-89d0-9dafe56562f6@googlegroups.com> <lnfuozz3ea.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <68e53f3a-5fcc-44fc-90c4-bcf8dc3db680@googlegroups.com>

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On 17/09/16 08:27, supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:
> On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 6:59:15 PM UTC-5, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> supercat writes:
>>> The expression -5 << 3 satisfies the second criterion, but fails the first.
>>> Consequently, it invokes Undefined Behavior.
>>
>> You're absolutely right.  Looks like I failed reading comprehension
>> for the day.  My apologies.
>
> Returning to my earlier point, which seems more plausible:
>
>    1. The authors of the Standard wanted to invite even two's-complement
>       implementations to behave nonsensically when left-shifting a negative
>       value unless he programmer explicitly cast the value to "unsigned"
>       first, or...
>
>    2. The authors of the Standard thought it so obvious that quality
>       two's-complement implementations should treat left-shifts of negative
>       values as a multiplication (at least in cases where the product
>       would be representable) that there was no need to waste ink saying
>       so.
>
> Before you recognized that you'd misread the Standard, you presumably would
> have thought that a programmer would be entitled to expect that when x==-5,
> a compiler would evaluate x<<3 as -40 with no side-effects.  Does the fact
> that the Standard imposes no requirements change that?
>

It changes nothing because:

a) The compiler I use most, gcc, does exactly what you expect here.  The 
documentation of this behaviour in gcc could be clearer, but combining 
the documentation with common sense (the compiler will use the simplest 
and most efficient reasonable instruction on the target cpu), you arrive 
at this interpretation.

b) I don't shift negative numbers.  It is rare that I would even shift 
positive values in a signed type - about the only case would be if I 
wanted to multiply an integer by a power of 2 (such as -5 * (1 << 3), 
rather than -5 << 3).  The compiler will no doubt turn the 
multiplication into a shift if that is more efficient on the particular 
architecture.

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Thread

Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-10 14:23 -0700
  Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2016-09-10 17:11 -0700
  Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-11 07:00 -0700
  Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2016-09-13 08:41 -0400
    Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-13 06:24 -0700
      Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-13 16:19 +0200
        Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-13 10:20 -0700
          Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-13 11:07 -0700
        Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-13 20:47 -0700
          Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-14 08:24 -0700
            Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-15 12:17 -0700
          Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-15 11:27 +0200
            Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-15 09:03 -0700
              Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-15 11:21 -0700
              Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-15 18:39 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-15 12:26 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-15 23:12 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-15 16:17 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-15 18:35 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-16 11:10 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-16 08:43 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-16 19:59 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-16 13:34 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-16 16:23 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-16 15:31 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-16 19:06 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-16 23:27 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-17 15:04 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-17 20:35 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-18 00:09 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-18 19:36 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-18 15:29 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-19 01:20 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-18 09:48 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-18 19:38 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-18 15:33 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-18 13:58 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-18 14:15 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-18 23:15 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-18 15:46 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-19 17:03 +1200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-19 07:40 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 10:54 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 10:51 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 22:03 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 15:44 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-20 09:02 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-19 21:12 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 15:58 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 09:49 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-19 02:37 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 13:20 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-19 06:22 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-19 12:46 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 16:20 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-19 07:32 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 11:26 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-19 09:10 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-19 09:33 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 11:54 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 22:14 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 22:12 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-19 14:32 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-19 22:58 -0500
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-20 09:45 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-20 07:49 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-20 19:43 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-20 11:15 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-19 22:36 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-22 21:30 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-22 23:58 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-23 19:45 +1200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-28 08:17 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-28 09:59 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-29 07:59 +1300
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-09-28 19:26 +0000
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-28 12:37 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-09 03:46 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-18 13:53 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-21 21:03 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-21 22:23 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-22 08:09 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-23 10:31 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-23 10:56 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-29 08:03 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-30 07:39 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-22 09:49 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-22 08:34 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-22 17:44 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2016-09-22 17:16 +0000
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-22 18:26 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2016-09-22 17:33 +0000
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-23 10:23 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-23 13:43 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-23 14:58 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-22 18:14 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 20:28 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-23 00:12 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-22 10:57 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-23 10:18 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-23 11:48 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-23 15:58 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-29 08:21 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-30 07:42 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-23 23:38 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-24 11:42 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-24 14:13 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-24 23:03 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-25 11:29 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-25 14:02 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-25 15:17 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-25 16:52 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-25 13:59 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-25 15:13 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-25 15:50 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-28 08:13 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-24 16:06 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-24 11:53 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-24 14:23 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-25 14:16 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-25 15:18 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-25 16:39 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-25 23:33 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-26 02:08 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-26 10:25 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-26 03:05 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-26 11:09 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-26 09:29 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-26 17:37 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-26 12:29 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-26 11:12 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-26 13:19 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-26 18:34 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-09-27 06:43 +0000
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-27 00:51 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-27 08:42 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-22 11:40 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-23 10:00 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-23 10:34 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-29 08:13 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-18 00:06 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-17 17:32 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-18 15:57 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-17 20:46 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-18 16:08 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-18 10:03 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-17 23:59 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-17 16:49 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-18 01:19 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-18 07:16 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-09-18 10:19 -0400
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-09-18 13:26 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-09-18 17:04 -0400
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-22 01:21 -0700
            Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-15 12:07 -0700
              Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-16 00:32 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-15 16:30 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-15 18:35 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-15 22:00 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-15 22:17 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-16 18:12 +1200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-16 00:46 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-16 10:23 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-16 10:59 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-16 04:13 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-16 08:58 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-16 10:16 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-16 09:11 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-16 20:14 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-16 20:37 -0700
      Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-13 07:47 -0700

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