Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview?

From	Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.javascript
Subject	Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview?
Date	2016-09-10 00:03 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<nqvilf$a4r$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <nqkl2e$6bt$1@dont-email.me> <nqmpag$kit$1@dont-email.me> <9cstsb1uddjiltlflrdiks2ha2u3msi1ao@4ax.com> <nqnqu2$a4v$1@dont-email.me> <f4i0tbtk1d2sgoqenh8cm8tl6itpk6prqk@4ax.com>

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Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> Scott Sauyet wrote:

>> So is there a reasonable equivalent law for `max`?  I say yes:
>>
>>    max([max(list1), max(list2)]) === max(concat(list1, list2))
>>
>> To make this true, `max([])` *must* be no greater than every valid
>> number.  Javascript offers only one such value, `-Infinity`.

>      The problem with this is that -Infinity is a valid numeric value.
> If max() returns that, then I have to check why it was returned.

I can't think of many places where I use `max` where I would need to 
check this.  Can you think of examples?  I would generally proceed on my 
merry way with this value.  In fact, that's the whole point.

>      What about using NaN?

    max([1, 2, 3])                   // 3 
    == max(max([1]), max([2, 3]))    // max(1, 3) == 3
    == max(max([1, 2]), max([3]))    // max(2, 3) == 3
    != max(max([]), max([1, 2, 3]))  // max(NaN, 3) == NaN

Just by partitioning a set differently we can change its maximum.  This 
would be quite unfortunate, especially if we partition it via some 
filtering mechanism that might easily leave some empty groups.

>> This is not simply an implementation convenience.  It goes to the heart
>> of how the function is considered.  If we try to define it in some 
>> hand-waving manner that implies that the result of `max` is 
>> specifically one of the inputs in the list, then we end up with a 
>> function less useful than it could be.
> 
>      This is on the edge of my mathematical knowledge.  I see your
> point, but I also see some ugliness.  I suspect others who know less
> math are seeing only the ugliness.

To me the only real ugliness, and it is a significant one, is the one Doc 
O'Leary is stressing:  This works well for numbers.  But it does not 
abstract gracefully to all possible types.  That leaves us with a choice 
to make: do we write a more abstract function, useful on more types but 
less true to numbers or do we leave this as a function only on numbers 
and assume that other types would have their own mechanisms for 
determining maxima/minima?

Doc O'Leary strongly suggests the former.  I lean toward the latter 
partly because I've done a lot of mathematical programming over the years 
(yes, even in Javascript) so having useful mathematical functions is 
important to me and partly because I believe there are some inherent 
problems trying to do that sort of generic programming in such a 
dynamically typed language.

What I meant about the definition is that if you try to define these 
functions as returning the largest elements of their lists you start to 
raise questions of references versus values, of how to handle ties; it 
simply becomes tricky. But there is a simple definition that captures the 
meaning explicitly without trying to select an element:  "The maximum is 
the smallest value that is no smaller than any element in the list."  
That clearly works for any non-empty lists, and it implies -Infinity for 
an empty list, which also works for the law I suggested above.

This is just cleaner all around.

  -- Scott

Thread

How would you prepare for javascripting interview? justaguy <lichunshen84@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 09:10 -0700
  Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> - 2016-07-18 18:37 +0200
    Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? justaguy <lichunshen84@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 11:09 -0700
      Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-07-21 01:04 +0000
        Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-07-21 14:24 +0100
        Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-23 16:25 +0200
          Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-07-23 15:56 +0000
            Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-03 19:39 +0000
              Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-04 15:56 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-05 00:06 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-09-05 14:49 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? $Bill <news@todbe.com> - 2016-09-05 10:01 -0700
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-06 09:36 -0700
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-09-05 15:05 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Andreas Bergmaier <andber93@web.de> - 2016-09-05 20:31 +0200
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-06 15:15 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-09-06 19:40 +0200
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-09-06 19:25 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Andreas Bergmaier <andber93@web.de> - 2016-09-06 22:16 +0200
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-09-07 17:17 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Andreas Bergmaier <andber93@web.de> - 2016-09-07 20:07 +0200
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-09-08 14:36 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-05 18:46 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-05 20:32 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-05 17:27 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-05 20:12 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-06 16:48 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Andreas Bergmaier <andber93@web.de> - 2016-09-06 19:56 +0200
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-07 20:16 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-07 10:01 -0700
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-07 20:21 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-09 11:41 -0700
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-09-09 15:35 -0700
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-09-09 20:40 -0700
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-10 15:12 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-12 11:14 -0700
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-13 21:07 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-06 16:20 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Ken Tilton <kentilton@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 11:37 -0700
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-09-06 19:26 +0200
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? "Michael Haufe (TNO)" <tno@thenewobjective.com> - 2016-09-08 12:41 -0700
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-05 20:37 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-05 22:13 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-06 02:33 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-06 16:02 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-06 09:50 -0700
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-07 01:36 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-07 10:07 -0700
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-10 00:03 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-10 00:12 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-10 15:34 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-11 01:32 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-12 19:26 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-13 01:02 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-13 21:38 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@arcor.de> - 2016-09-14 00:56 +0200
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-15 15:09 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-14 00:47 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-15 15:34 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-11 02:45 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-12 19:10 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-12 21:06 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-07 03:12 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-07 19:53 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-10 02:14 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-09-10 11:25 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-10 15:49 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-10 18:39 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-11 02:45 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-09-11 16:23 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-12 20:32 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-12 18:49 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-13 00:27 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2016-09-13 08:51 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> - 2016-09-13 12:33 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Scott Sauyet <scott@sauyet.com> - 2016-09-14 01:17 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2016-09-14 11:15 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-09-15 15:02 +0000
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-09-13 10:06 +0100
                Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? John Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2016-09-06 19:53 +0100
    Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-07-18 22:30 +0200
  Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? justaguy <lichunshen84@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 14:56 -0700
  Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2016-07-19 16:01 -0300
    Re: How would you prepare for javascripting interview? Joao Rodrigues <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2016-07-19 16:16 -0300

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