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Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language
Date 2016-08-09 19:50 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <nod54m$7t4$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (17 earlier) <no9vt3$fn$2@jstuckle.eternal-september.org> <e0s58dFr7hnU1@mid.individual.net> <9745a560-f307-3596-cb0f-5df17db9cb4b@verizon.net> <noc98h$5k7$1@dont-email.me> <nocrsd$6cv$1@dont-email.me>

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On 09/08/16 17:12, James Kuyper wrote:
> On 08/09/2016 05:54 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 08/08/16 22:00, James R. Kuyper wrote:
>>> On 08/08/2016 03:35 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
>>>> On 08/ 9/16 01:02 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>>> On 8/7/2016 11:11 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
>>> ...
>>>>>> http://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32f3-series/stm32f303/stm32f303k6.html
>>>>>>
>>> ...
>>>> If you use the wee gadget under you hand called a mouse and click on the
>>>> link above, you will see the datasheet for a 32 bit microcontroller that
>>>> doesn't require at least a 4 layer board.  That answers your question
>>>> above.  If you have trouble reading it, consult one of your legion of
>>>> experts.
>>>
>>> While Jerry might have a league of experts to consult, but I don't (and
>>> judging from the advice he's said they've given him, I'm glad of it).
>>> This isn't my area of expertise. What does it say on that page to
>>> indicate that it uses fewer then 4 layers? The word "layer" itself
>>> appears on that page only once, and not in a context that seems
>>> relevant. There's links to many other documents there - if it's one of
>>> those documents that contains the relevant information, you should have
>>> posted a link to that specific document.
>>>
>>
>> There are rarely fixed rules about the number of layers you need for
>> working with a particular chip.  Manufacturers sometimes give very
>> specific routing patterns for particular chips, such as between large
>> processor chips and their chipsets and/or memory banks.  But normally
>> the number of layers needed is a matter of judgement for the PCB designer.
>>
>> So people experienced with PCB design can look at a chip like this one,
>> with 32 legs along the sides of the chip, and say "it should be fine to
>> route this using two layers".  Or they may look at a more complicated or
>> compact device and say "it will need at least three routing layers, and
>> a ground plane to reduce electrical noise".
>
> So the number of layers is a design choice constrained by the chip's
> design, rather than a characteristic of the chip itself.

Basically, it takes a certain amount of board space to route signals 
from a pin on one device to other devices on the board.  If you have a 
lot of these signals in a small space, and can't fit them side by side, 
you need to use more routing layers so that they can pass each other - 
there is a limit to how thin and tightly packed you want the lines.  So 
lots of pins in total, or high pin density (such as ball grid array 
packages rather than packages with legs around the edges), typically 
mean more layers needed for routing.  But a package with fewer pins and 
plenty of space between them can be routed on two layers regardless of 
the width of the internal cpu.

Other issues that can affect the choice are the need for controlled 
impedance of high-speed digital interfaces (USB, HDMI, Ethernet, etc.), 
power routing, noise on analogue signals, etc.

> In that case,
> if Jerry's wrong, there should exist PCB designs with less than 4 layers
> incorporating this chip, or some other 32 bit chip. Such a design would
> be definitive counter-example to his claim, whereas the chip itself is,
> at best, debatable evidence (and Jerry is, of course, debating it). Can
> you identify and provide the details of a PCB design with fewer than 4
> layers incorporating a 32 bit microcontroller?
>

I've made a couple myself with 32-bit processors or microcontrollers and 
2 layers, though most of the boards I designed were 4 layers (and one 
that was 8 or 10 layers).  It's a while since I have done much PCB 
design - it is other colleagues who do most of that these days.  And a 
good number of the boards we make have chips similar to the ST device 
(with a 32-bit Arm Cortex M microcontroller) - some 2 layers, though 
again most have 4 layers.  (4 layers makes it a lot easier to have good 
EMC characteristics and a clean design - for most of our designs, it is 
worth the small extra cost.  Failing the EMC tests and having to re-spin 
and re-test is expensive, and a risk best avoided.)  And I have also 
made 4 layer designs with 8-bit microcontrollers.

But all of the designs here are proprietary, and I can't give links.

In most industrial and small or medium quantity commercial designs, 4 
layers are typical with 2 layers only used for simple cards or ones 
where price is a serious premium.  4 layers makes it much easier to get 
good EMC characteristics, avoid electrical noise (especially for 
analogue parts), and get controlled impedances for high speed 
interfaces.  More layers are used for more complex designs.  This 
applies whether you have a microcontroller or not, and regardless of the 
bit width of the microcontroller.

But the question is whether you /need/ 4 layers just because the 
microcontroller or microprocessor is 32-bit, and the answer there is 
definitely no.

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Thread

IEEE: C is the first programming language jacob navia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-27 22:36 +0200
  Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-27 16:42 -0700
    Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language jacob navia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-28 01:47 +0200
      Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-27 17:20 -0700
        Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 18:03 -0700
          Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-28 00:43 -0700
            Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 05:12 -0700
              Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-28 05:41 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 06:02 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-28 06:26 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 06:45 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-28 09:11 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 09:30 -0700
          Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-28 14:03 +0200
            Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 05:24 -0700
              Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-29 01:14 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 18:27 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-29 12:08 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-29 11:37 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-29 12:51 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-07-29 08:36 -0600
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 05:32 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-29 14:42 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 06:59 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-29 16:08 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-29 09:16 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 09:21 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-29 17:55 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 11:00 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 11:48 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-29 21:12 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 19:39 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-07-29 14:56 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-29 08:54 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-01 10:30 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-29 08:13 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-31 12:18 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-29 07:34 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-29 14:10 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-29 23:36 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-29 16:04 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-30 11:22 +1200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-30 01:09 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-01 08:08 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-01 21:16 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-01 22:13 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-02 13:33 +0100
            Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-28 08:11 -0700
          Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-28 07:36 -0700
            Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 07:51 -0700
              Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-28 08:19 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 10:18 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-28 11:16 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 11:49 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-28 12:37 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 13:15 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-28 14:05 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-28 15:53 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-28 18:03 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-29 10:50 -0700
      Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-07-28 10:50 +0200
        Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-28 08:11 -0500
        Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-28 07:46 -0700
          Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-07-28 16:50 +0200
            Re: Setting architectural features in stone Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-08-01 11:18 +0200
              Re: Setting architectural features in stone supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-01 05:37 -0700
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-01 14:02 +0100
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-01 07:05 -0700
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-01 16:04 +0100
              Re: Setting architectural features in stone Ivan Godard <ivan@millcomputing.com> - 2016-08-01 09:26 -0700
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-01 10:12 -0700
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-08-01 10:21 -0700
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-01 11:01 -0700
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-08-01 11:44 -0700
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-08-02 12:05 +0200
              Re: Setting architectural features in stone anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-08-01 15:48 +0000
              Re: Setting architectural features in stone Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2016-08-02 20:09 -0400
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-08-03 06:42 +0000
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-03 11:02 +0100
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone Ivan Godard <ivan@millcomputing.com> - 2016-08-03 03:15 -0700
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-08-03 11:53 +0000
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-03 08:57 -0700
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-08-03 10:52 +0200
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-03 11:09 +0100
                Re: Setting architectural features in stone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-08-03 08:51 -0700
          Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-08-01 10:51 +0100
            Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-08-01 13:13 +0200
            Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-01 05:27 -0700
          Setting architectural features in stone Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-08-01 10:00 -0700
            Re: Setting architectural features in stone anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-08-02 10:29 +0000
          Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-01 16:29 -0400
            Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-01 15:53 -0700
              Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-04 16:37 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-04 16:07 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-04 20:38 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-04 23:52 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-05 13:00 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-06 03:12 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-06 21:48 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-06 20:07 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-07 10:03 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-05 13:09 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-05 13:38 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-05 11:24 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-05 15:28 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-06 08:25 +1200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-05 16:36 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-06 08:41 +1200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-05 16:45 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-06 09:41 +1200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-05 19:45 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-06 09:47 +1200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 16:11 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-06 21:50 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-06 19:12 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-06 22:38 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 14:06 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-07 10:04 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-07 17:27 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 20:24 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-07 21:30 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-07 17:03 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-07 21:36 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-08 15:11 +1200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-08 09:02 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-09 07:35 +1200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-08-08 16:00 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-09 08:07 +1200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-08 21:22 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-09 11:08 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-08-08 13:39 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-09 11:54 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-09 08:50 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-09 15:19 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2016-08-09 09:14 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-09 19:22 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-08-09 11:12 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2016-08-09 15:25 +0000
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-09 19:50 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-08 16:44 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-09 17:38 +1200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-09 08:51 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-09 20:06 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-09 11:57 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-09 08:51 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-08 12:15 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-08-08 11:57 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-08 23:04 +1200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-08 15:20 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-08 09:27 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-08 09:21 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-08 17:33 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-08 14:35 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-08-05 14:06 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-05 14:37 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-07 13:53 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-07 14:09 +0100
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-07 10:08 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-07 17:34 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-07 21:37 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-07 19:18 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-08-08 12:31 +0200
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-08 03:55 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-08 08:28 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-08-08 09:44 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-08 10:13 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-05 07:51 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-05 13:39 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-05 11:27 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-05 15:29 -0400
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-05 08:38 -0700
                Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-08-05 13:40 -0400
        Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-28 21:27 +0200
          Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-29 00:19 +0200
          Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-08-01 11:49 +0200
      Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-28 10:01 +0000
    Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2016-07-28 01:57 -0500
      Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-28 07:27 -0700
        Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-28 09:06 -0700
          Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-28 09:39 -0700
            Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-28 11:56 -0700
              Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2016-07-28 15:19 -0400
        Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-31 12:15 -0700
          Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-01 05:25 -0700
            Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-08-01 07:37 -0700
              Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-01 08:21 -0700
  Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-27 17:17 -0700
  Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-07-28 14:17 +0200
    Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-28 18:43 +0200
      Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-07-28 18:58 +0200
  Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-31 21:46 +0200
    Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-08-01 16:37 +1200
    Re: IEEE: C is the first programming language supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-08-01 07:20 -0700

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