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Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control??

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On 7/13/2016 3:06 PM, john wrote:
> Odd
> So- when galactic rotation curves PROVED
> by the data that suck gravity was
> wrong, why did you
> believe in DM?
>

We've had this discussion before, John. I will repeat it ONE MORE TIME 
for you, giving you the opportunity to jot it down on a 3x5 card.

========================================
A theory is a model that says:
IF you know all the inputs, and you put them into the equations of this 
model, then the outputs of the model should match measurable observations.

Note the IF. This means that in the event that there is a mismatch 
between the outputs of a model and the observations, then there are TWO 
possible conclusions, and you are obligated to investigate BOTH.

Possibility 1: You did in fact know all the inputs correctly, and the 
theory is wrong.

Possibility 2: The theory is right, but you did not know all the inputs 
correctly.
=========================================

There are LOTS of examples of this, John.

Example 1: Launching cannonballs, where the claim is if you know all the 
forces on the ball at launch and during flight, then you should know 
where it lands by Newton's laws of motion. But if you include the force 
of gravity, air friction, and the impulse of the cannon, you find that 
the cannonball lands consistently to the right of where you expected. 
Does this mean Newton's laws of motion are wrong? Maybe. But maybe there 
was a force you did not include in the inputs. And lo and behold, it 
turns out you forgot the Coriolis effect or didn't even know was there. 
But when you figure out the Coriolis effect, it accounts for the 
difference exactly.

Example 2: Electrostatics tells you that like charges repel. But the 
protons in the atom are all positively charged, and yet the nucleus of 
the atom seems to stay together. So is Coulomb's law of electrostatics 
wrong? Maybe. But maybe there is ANOTHER force that is stronger than 
electrostatic repulsion. And lo and behold, you discover that there is a 
nuclear force that is attractive and stronger than electrostatic 
repulsion that you didn't know about before.

Example 3: Conservation of energy tells you that in the decay of the 
neutron into a proton and an electron, the energy of the neutron should 
equal the energy of the proton plus the energy of the electron. But when 
you measure them, they don't end up equal. So is the conservation of 
energy wrong? Maybe. But maybe there's a particle coming out the decay 
you didn't notice or know about. And lo and behold, there is a proposed 
neutrino (something that was never dreamed of before this) and then when 
you go looking for the neutrino, there it is.

Example 4: General relativity predicts certain rates of galactic 
rotation, if you know the amount of mass in the galaxy. So you count up 
all the mass you can see and the galactic rotation rates don't match up 
to the prediction. So is general relativity wrong? Maybe. But maybe 
there's an additional source of mass that you didn't notice before or 
even know was there. So you go looking for it, and ... well, we'll see 
if there's a lo and behold the same way there has been for DOZENS AND 
DOZENS of other examples where something new was proven out.

Now, John, if you're HELL BENT on pursuing only one of two options, 
instead of investigating both, then I suppose that's up to you. But then 
you're being both an obtuse idiot and unscientific to boot.

Got it now? Can you absorb this in your wee head and prove that you can 
still learn SOMETHING?

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Archimedes Plutonium <plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com> - 2016-07-12 00:59 -0700
  Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-07-12 06:02 -0700
    Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-12 08:29 -0500
      Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-07-12 07:07 -0700
        Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 09:06 -0500
    Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-12 14:16 +0000
      Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-07-12 07:47 -0700
        Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-12 15:06 +0000
        Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-14 14:07 +0000
          Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-07-14 07:19 -0700
            Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-14 09:43 -0500
            Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-14 15:24 +0000
              Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-07-14 09:29 -0700
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-14 17:13 +0000
      Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 09:05 -0500
        Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-13 15:16 +0000
          Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 10:53 -0700
            Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-13 18:14 +0000
              Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 11:30 -0700
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 12:08 -0700
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 14:47 -0500
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 13:06 -0700
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 16:28 -0500
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Archimedes Plutonium <plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 15:18 -0700
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-13 23:02 +0000
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Archimedes Plutonium <plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 17:38 -0700
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 19:56 -0500
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-14 02:13 +0000
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-07-14 14:21 -0700
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 19:48 -0500
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 13:14 -0700
                Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-14 13:50 +0000
  Juno teaching us what Gravity-really-is Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Archimedes Plutonium <plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com> - 2016-07-12 13:33 -0700
    fourth and final engine burn-- is it panic?? Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Archimedes Plutonium <plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com> - 2016-07-12 18:52 -0700
      photos taken Re: fourth and final engine burn-- is it panic?? Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Archimedes Plutonium <plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com> - 2016-07-12 22:53 -0700
        spin gravity of Jupiter will destroy Juno - curlxE = dB + S_B Re: photos taken Archimedes Plutonium <plutonium.archimedes@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 14:44 -0700
    Re: Juno teaching us what Gravity-really-is Re: Juno probe already in trouble, with 13July correction of orbit; spinning out of control?? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-14 10:03 -0500

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