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Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back

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On 06/07/16 11:49, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 10:29:13 AM UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>> On 06/07/16 01:23, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>
>> You seem determined to use C (via a C++ compiler) despite how much you seem to 
>> dislike the language and despite its questionable suitability for developing a compiler or IDE.  
>>
> If I was writing a compiler for a new language as a one man project, the fact I was doing
> so would imply that I didn't think C or any other established language was totally
> suitable for my purposes. So it's quite likely I'd have many criticisms to make of C.
> 

There are a great many reasons to choose to make a new language and a
new compiler.  There are a great many types of programs, and different
languages are suitable for different purposes.  Even if we only limit
ourselves to practical reasons (rather than "just for fun", or "to learn
about programming languages", or "because existing languages and tools
are written by evil people"), it is more likely that a new language
would be made to suit a particular purpose rather than simply to replace
an existing language.

Of course people are going to have criticisms of any language they use a
lot - I doubt if there is anyone in this group who likes every aspect of
C.  But there is a difference between having some minor dislikes or
criticisms, and the level of hatred that Rick seems to have for parts of C.

> However I would implement the compiler in a  conservative subset of ANSI C and
> output a similarly conservative subset. That gives the project maximum chance of 
> longevity and usefulness.
> 

/You/ might choose to do that - but it would be a rather silly choice in
this case.  C is a poor choice of language for writing a compiler these
days - at least for a first draft.  A language that has good support for
strings, parsing, dictionaries, and the like would make more sense.  I
would pick Python here, because I am familiar with it - there are many
other suitable high level languages that would do.  Once the basic
compiler and tools are working with Python, and I and others had used it
for enough man-years to be happy with the language in practice, it might
then be time to write a new implementation in C++ to get a more
efficient compiler if it looks like compilation speed is an issue, or if
the project is going to get bigger and have more features.

But a key to success is to use a language that will let you get the
basic system up and running quickly.  If you are trying to do it all
yourself, then higher level languages will get you faster results.  (If
you are combining ready-made libraries or creating a new front-end to
llvm, your choice will be influenced by that.)

Rick's aim here is to create an initial CAlive compiler that will let
him bootstrap his later version of the tools written in CAlive itself.
So it really doesn't matter what language the first compiler is written
in - certainly there is no point whatsoever of limiting himself to a
subset of a 25+ year old version of a low-level language in the name of
"portability".

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Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 10:36 -0700
  Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-06-29 16:04 -0700
    Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 16:30 -0700
      Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-06-29 19:52 -0700
        Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-06-30 13:00 +0100
          Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 05:42 -0700
            Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 18:11 +0100
              Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 10:30 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 19:54 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 12:31 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-01 07:59 +1200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 21:31 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 14:31 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 21:18 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 14:26 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 22:44 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 17:23 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-05 21:38 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-05 21:05 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 13:32 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-05 23:20 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 14:25 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 16:14 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-06 11:18 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 03:36 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 16:23 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-06 11:29 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-06 02:49 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 05:18 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-06 13:57 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 06:24 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-06 15:22 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 07:12 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-06 08:08 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-06 09:00 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-07 08:01 +1200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-06 13:30 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-06 17:30 +0100
    Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 00:39 +0100
      Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-06-30 22:08 +0200
  Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back gordonb.h5sc5@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2016-06-29 20:52 -0500
    Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 19:00 -0700
      Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-30 16:06 +1200
        Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-06-30 02:48 -0700
          Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-30 23:25 +1200
            Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-06-30 04:39 -0700
              Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-06-30 21:50 +0200
            Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 06:49 -0700
              Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-06-30 22:23 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-04 10:43 -0700
                Vaporware (Was: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke ...) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-07-04 17:59 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Randy Howard <rhoward.mx@EverybodyUsesIt.com> - 2016-07-06 12:38 -0500
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 11:38 -0700
          Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-06-30 19:51 +0100
            Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-06-30 21:59 +0200
              Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-01 01:05 -0700
        Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 11:32 +0100
          Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-30 23:23 +1200
            Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 14:28 +0100
              Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-06-30 08:24 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 16:56 +0100
              Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-06-30 22:17 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 22:22 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-01 08:25 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-01 12:09 +0100

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