Gravitational waves and skeptics

From	Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics
Subject	Gravitational waves and skeptics
Date	2016-02-11 17:08 -0600
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<n9j48t$1vp3$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)

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[To Pentcho, John Sefton, Ben Jacoby and other like-minded luddites]

A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
on the LHC was a monstrous waste of time because Higgs bosons would 
never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with (according 
to them).

A number of people on this newsgroup have claimed that the money spent 
on the LIGO lab was a monstrous waste of time because gravitational 
waves would never be found because the idea was stillborn to begin with 
(according to them).

Now, of course, the discovery of the Higgs boson is well-established, 
and we now have a clear announcement that confirms observational evidence:
- that black holes not only exist, but that they merge as predicted by 
the theory
- that binary pairs of black holes exist
- that gravitational waves exist, in exactly the manner predicted by the 
theory

So really, I want to see how skeptics splutter about this. How will they 
respond?

Some possibilities:
"OK, so the Higgs boson and gravitational waves do exist after all, but 
what good are they? Why did we spend all that money if they don't do 
anything to improve the lives of ordinary people?"

"Just because the observations confirm the predictions of the theory 
doesn't prove that those theories are right. There could be a zillion 
other, more ordinary explanations of those observations, and therefore 
I'll never be convinced that quantum field theory and general relativity 
are right -- never."

"All the data are faked. It has to be the case. It's MUCH more likely 
that the whole shebang is a conspiracy of faked results to protect the 
reputations of everyone involved, than it is that quantum field theory 
and general relativity are correct."

"The results should be ignored and should mean nothing, because the 
experiments shouldn't have been done in the first place, because there 
was no believable theoretical motivation to do them. You are all foolish 
to have ever looked for those experimental results, and you should 
ignore all of them."

"OK, I was wrong. The data do in fact exhibit support for quantum field 
theory and general relativity. But this doesn't make me feel any better 
about the theories, because they still seem nonsensical to me. And if 
the theories were really right, then I should be able to make sense of 
them."

Which of these, oh skeptics of modern physics, is you?
-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 17:08 -0600
  Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 15:28 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 19:59 -0500
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 07:16 -0600
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:40 -0500
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:01 -0600
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 00:44 -0500
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 09:49 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 08:01 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 12:47 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 12:46 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 15:35 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 00:34 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 07:27 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 05:59 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 07:30 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 10:23 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 22:46 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Dingus Dirtbag McGee" <insavad@example.com> - 2016-02-16 22:49 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 03:16 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 03:29 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 03:59 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 04:07 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 05:05 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 06:26 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 10:11 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 10:19 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 10:05 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 09:03 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 10:15 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 10:05 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-21 13:35 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 12:57 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-02-21 19:40 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 14:28 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 08:52 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 05:58 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 06:41 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 14:37 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-23 16:55 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:29 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:40 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:49 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 16:16 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 23:02 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 01:25 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-14 17:43 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:11 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 20:17 -0500
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 07:17 -0600
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 10:38 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:58 -0500
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:14 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:40 -0500
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:03 -0600
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 00:50 -0500
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 10:04 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 13:01 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 15:37 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 00:36 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 07:28 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:42 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:52 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 16:13 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 23:00 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 01:22 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 08:53 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 07:07 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 15:44 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 16:16 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 15:32 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 14:34 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 19:50 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 19:12 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 17:08 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 01:13 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 03:03 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 10:04 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 09:16 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 09:24 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 12:02 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 12:31 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 16:14 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 02:43 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 04:53 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 16:09 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 15:58 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 16:30 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 16:30 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 19:28 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 07:39 -0600
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 19:53 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-02-12 04:33 +0000
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-11 22:02 -0500
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 23:02 -0500
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-12 11:34 -0500
        Re: Ben Jacoby's hallucinations rule supreme, unreproachable. benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:55 -0500
          Better art refines prior art. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 12:19 -0800
            Re: Better art refines prior art. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:29 -0600
              Re: Better art refines prior art. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 14:37 -0600
                Re: Better art refines prior art. "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:47 -0800
              Re: Better art refines prior art. Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 12:56 -0800
              Re: Better art refines prior art. "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 04:50 -0800
            Re: Better art refines prior art. "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:42 -0800
          Re: Ben Jacoby's hallucinations rule supreme, unreproachable. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-02-12 13:43 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-02-12 13:33 -0600
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 11:49 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 00:29 -0500
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2016-02-12 08:27 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-12 11:37 -0500
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2016-02-12 11:05 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 13:06 -0600
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2016-02-12 11:11 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 11:29 -0800
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 13:56 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2016-02-12 12:51 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 15:00 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2016-02-12 13:48 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-13 14:02 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2016-02-13 18:16 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 15:40 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 20:01 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 22:39 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:38 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 19:56 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 23:05 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 00:31 -0500
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-02-13 11:56 -0500
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:32 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:27 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 22:50 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 03:24 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:24 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 02:18 -0800
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-02-12 10:54 +0000
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 07:25 -0600
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-02-13 11:47 -0500
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 04:54 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 08:30 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 15:31 -0600
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 00:27 -0500
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 07:21 -0600
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:51 -0500
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 11:54 -0600
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 16:19 -0500
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-14 07:26 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 15:50 -0600
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-17 06:45 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 09:12 -0600
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-18 06:38 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:23 -0600
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-20 11:42 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:28 -0600
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-20 11:45 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 13:49 -0600
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 10:34 -0600
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-18 06:05 -0800
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 06:20 -0800
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:24 -0500
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:20 -0600
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-02-19 00:58 +0000
          Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-21 06:04 -0800
            Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-02-22 02:59 +0000
              Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-22 07:14 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 09:39 -0600
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-23 05:47 -0800
                Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-02-22 17:14 +0000
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 19:43 -0600
  Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics xxein1@att.net - 2016-02-21 23:34 -0800
    Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-22 07:32 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 09:41 -0600
        Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-23 05:48 -0800
      Re: Gravitational waves and skeptics xxein1@att.net - 2016-02-22 15:12 -0800

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