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Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN

From "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN
Date 2016-01-25 21:45 +1100
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <n84ub7$ef$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <n7mbu0$o0m$1@dont-email.me> <n7pj9q$itp$1@gioia.aioe.org> <n7ri67$igq$1@dont-email.me> <n81cqm$1mih$1@gioia.aioe.org> <n83q7b$c15$1@dont-email.me>

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Bernd Paysan wrote:
> ...
> Just point me to the lawsuit were somebody won a lawsuit against a software
> manufacturer who had buggy software, i.e. not intentionally buggy, but
> accidentially so, following normal development procedures.

I don't spend my days looking.  The only way a manufacturer can be exempt
liability is if there were legislation to that effect.  Can you point to such legislation
for software manufacturers?

> >> A lot of commercial end product makers use free software as building
> >> blocks.
> >> Especially Linux is found in a lot of higher-end embedded systems.  You
> >> definitely can't sue Linus Torvalds or the Debian community on which you
> >> have based your system.  Apparently, this works out.
> >
> > As the latter didn't sell a product or service they have no commercial
> > liability. If there's a defect in that software the product manufacturer
> > would be solely liable.
>
> If they would ever be liable (apparently, they get away with not maintaining
> their software, even though there are bugs in there, often added by
> themselves, sometimes kernel bugs)...

Maybe but as far as the consumer is concerned have these bugs and
lack of maintenance rendered the product "not fit for purpose"?  If not,
a manufacturer can reasonably say he's not required to fix them.

> However, these manufacturer accept that they can't shift the liability to
> Linus and Co., which was my actual point.  They don't have this cover-my-ass
> mentality of "I need somebody to sue in case my product is fucked up".

I don't see too many martyrs in the business world prepared to take on
the liability of others.  For one thing their shareholders would hate them.

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Thread

BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 14:50 -0800
  Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-05 11:24 +1100
    Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 16:47 -0800
      Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-05 12:17 +1100
      Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-05 10:51 +0000
        Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-01-05 15:06 +0000
  Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 17:25 -0800
    Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-05 13:06 +1100
      Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 21:42 -0800
        Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 01:48 -0500
        Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-01-05 11:15 +0000
        Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-06 14:35 +1100
  Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-01-05 02:04 +0000
  Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 18:37 -0800
    Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-04 19:17 -0800
    Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-05 11:10 +0000
    Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-06 15:02 +1100
  Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN november.nihal@gmail.com - 2016-01-05 08:03 -0800
    Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN november.nihal@gmail.com - 2016-01-05 08:07 -0800
      Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN november.nihal@gmail.com - 2016-01-05 08:18 -0800
      Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN november.nihal@gmail.com - 2016-01-05 08:21 -0800
  Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-07 05:13 -0500
    Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-08 12:36 +1100
      Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-08 10:32 +0000
        Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2016-01-08 02:55 -0800
          Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2016-01-08 13:57 +0100
            Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2016-01-08 06:55 -0800
              Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-08 15:06 -0800
              Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-08 16:59 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-01-08 16:15 -1000
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-08 22:23 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-01-08 21:12 -1000
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-09 08:04 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-01-09 09:16 -1000
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-10 15:31 +0000
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 08:11 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-01-10 09:42 -1000
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-01-11 13:02 +0000
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-13 16:20 +0000
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-10 14:10 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-11 18:38 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-14 08:47 +1100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 17:24 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-13 19:25 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-14 22:09 +1100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-14 16:21 +0000
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-16 11:34 +1100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-16 03:43 +0100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-19 18:01 +1100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-19 23:07 +0100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-21 14:29 +1100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-21 22:25 +0100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-24 13:28 +1100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-25 01:31 +0100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-25 21:45 +1100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-25 10:24 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-25 20:41 +0100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-28 20:39 +1100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-28 16:05 +0100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 20:52 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-24 13:16 +1100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 08:46 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-16 11:34 +1100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 20:53 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-13 19:31 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-11 09:29 +1100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 21:18 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-01-10 21:29 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-01-10 20:37 -1000
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-01-11 09:05 +0000
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-12 12:26 +1100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-10 14:18 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2016-01-08 23:31 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-09 08:09 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-01-09 05:31 -0600
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-01-09 07:52 -0600
              Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-01-09 18:22 +0200
              Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-09 16:29 +0000
          Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-01-08 11:23 +0000
            Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-10 20:17 -0800
              Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-01-11 11:56 +0000
              Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-01-11 11:59 +0000
                generalized CASE (was: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-11 12:30 +0000
                Re: generalized CASE (was: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-11 13:52 -0800
                Re: generalized CASE Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-01-11 22:00 +0000
                Re: generalized CASE Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2016-01-12 01:50 +0100
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-11 14:16 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 16:17 -0800
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-12 13:07 +0000
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-01-12 20:48 +0000
                Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-12 14:16 -0800
          Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-08 16:21 +0000
            Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-01-08 20:12 +0000
              Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-09 18:19 +0000
              Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-11 09:34 +1100
            Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-08 21:13 +0100
        Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-09 23:46 +1100
      Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-01-08 10:11 -0500
        Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-11 08:38 +1100
  Re: BEGIN WHILE UNTIL THEN november.nihal@gmail.com - 2016-01-08 03:04 -0800

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