Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought

From	moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups	sci.physics
Subject	Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought
Date	2016-01-14 21:46 +0000
Organization	The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID	<n794v2$nsi$1@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <31e32040-f5e3-4e88-9d16-6fac3dbc3a27@googlegroups.com> <n78qqn$85p$1@pcls7.std.com> <51637bfc-5925-443e-aed4-3d2b6ed34988@googlegroups.com> <n790f8$9es$1@pcls7.std.com> <c5368fa4-7960-42da-b978-f3eb344d80d6@googlegroups.com>

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Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> writes:

>On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 12:29:38 PM UTC-8, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>> >Anecdotal.  The same effect can be explained by moist air increasing 
>> >drag.
>> 
>> Drag is different.

>Same effect.

No, it is not.  Drag is a force backwards.  Lift is a force upwards.

>  Look at the force diagram on an airplane, from an
>> intro to flight course.  Lift is upward.  Gravity is downward.  Thrust
>> is forward.  Drag is backward.  As you can see, lift and drag act in
>> different directions.

>> >  You/we need a test that allows us to distinguish between these two 
>> >different causes.
>> 
>> Over 100 years of flight experience, wind tunnels etc.

>Anecdote plus anecdote equals more anecdote.  

Is that the best argument that you have? "Everything is anecdote, 100+
years if aerospace science and engineering be damned!" (not to mention
who knows how many years of weather science)

We have made jets fly much faster than sound, rockets that reached the 
planets and you really think nobody but you has figured out the density
of humid air?

>> >  Pilots aren't going to know (or care).
>> 
>> Of course they care! They have a vested interest in whether the runway is
>> going to be long enough before starting the rollout.

>Same result either way.  Try to follow the conversation.

A pilot isn't going to care whether his fully-loaded, fully fueled 
aircraft can make it off a runway on a hot, humid day?

>> >Lift is proportional to density,
>> 
>> >And it's inversely proportional to drag . . . so . . . uh.  Now what say you?
>> 
>> Not applicable, as they act in different directions.  Also, a heavy
>> loaded plane will have the same drag as an empty light one (aerodynamics 
>> is not changed), but needs more lift.

No comment?

>> >What experiment do you think would allow us to distinguish between these 
>> >competing explanations.  Hint: it can't be found on the internet.
>> 
>> Why wouldn't data from over 100 years of flight engineering be on the
>> internet?

>Let's suppose it was a thousand years of data.  Would that make any 
>difference at all?  More anecdote just produces more anecdote.

Science isn't anecdote.

Thread

Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 21:58 -0800
  Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-13 21:16 -0800
    Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-14 17:08 +0000
      Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 18:27 +0100
        Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 10:23 -0800
      Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 10:23 -0800
        Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-01-14 10:35 -0800
          Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 13:43 -0500
          Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 12:03 -0800
            Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-01-14 12:09 -0800
              Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 12:13 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-01-14 21:19 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 22:03 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-01-14 22:38 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 23:05 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 10:25 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-01-15 12:27 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 10:58 -0600
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-15 07:06 +0000
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 10:22 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-15 20:33 +0000
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 13:22 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 16:07 -0600
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-16 00:14 +0000
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-15 18:52 -0600
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-17 15:12 -0600
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-17 15:34 -0600
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 19:23 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-21 21:53 -0600
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-23 09:01 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 00:30 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-01-15 12:34 -0800
        Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-14 18:53 +0000
          Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-14 19:13 +0000
          Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 12:10 -0800
            Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-14 20:29 +0000
              Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 12:42 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-14 21:46 +0000
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 18:15 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-15 17:23 +0000
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 10:14 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-15 19:07 +0000
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 12:07 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-17 10:31 -0600
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 12:19 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-15 16:31 -0600
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 10:17 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 14:11 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-15 18:00 -0600
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-16 00:06 +0000
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-15 16:57 -0800
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-16 06:10 +0000
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-16 23:34 -0600
                Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-17 15:21 -0600
  Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 11:36 -0800
    Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2016-01-29 10:16 -0800
  Re: Why Wind Turbines (May) Cause Drought James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-31 22:31 -0800

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