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Re: Everyone Uses the Condom - Girls also use Implanon or NexplanonT - Boys also use the pull-out method.

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 10/21/2015 12:30 PM, Sheila S wrote:
> On 10/20/2015 3:47 PM, Tom Mr. wrote:
>> On 10/20/2015 1:02 PM, Safe Sex is Good wrote:
>>> On 10/20/2015 2:50 AM, Pregnancy Prevention wrote:
>>>> On 10/20/2015 2:46 AM, Pregnancy Prevention wrote:
>>>>> Girls use Implanon or NexplanonT and the condom.
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etonogestrel_contraceptive_implant
>>>>>
>>>>> Boys use the condom and the pull-out method.
>>>>
>>>> I mean together.  Use them together.
>>>
>>>
>>> If you always carry 3 condoms you'll always be ready for sex.
>>
>>
>>
>> Indeed!  Everyone should use both.  The risk with just Implanon is 1 in
>> 2000, the risk with Implanon and Condoms is 1/2,000 x 1/6 (condom
>> typical use) x 1/100 (100 sex acts per year double counted) = 1 in
>> 1,200,000.
>>
>> They give DUIs to lower the risk of dying in a car accident to less than
>> 1 in 2,000.  Maybe you think a pregnancy is not death but it's kind of
>> getting close.
>>
>> For boys: 1/6(condoms) x 1/4(pull-out) x 1/100(sex acts double counted)
>> = 1 in 2,400.  In perfect use: 1/50(condom perfect) x 1/25(pull-out
>> perfect) x 1/100 (sex acts per year double counted)= 1/125,000.
>>
>>  From 1 in 2,400 to 1 in 125,000 might be safe enough to use if there's
>> not a better option.  As the risk of dying in a car accident is about 1
>> in 10,000*.  However they are always trying to find ways to lower that
>> risk and save the 30,000 which die.  If in a repeated and pre-meditated
>> relationship, one can advise their partner to use hormonal or the sponge
>> or diaphragm in addition.
>>
>> Contraceptive rates from the CDC:
>> www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/unintendedpregnancy/pdf/contraceptive_methods_508.pdf
>>
>>
>> http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/unintendedpregnancy/pdf/contraceptive_methods_508.pdf
>>
>
>
>
> That's a good chart.  This table from the Association of Reproductive
> Health Professionals is also helpful, as it shows a precise breakdown of
> the risk of using contraceptives in both typical and perfect use.
>
> https://www.arhp.org/Publications-and-Resources/Quick-Reference-Guide-for-Clinicians/choosing/failure-rates-table
>
>
> As an example it shows spermicide in typical use, percent of women out
> of 100% pregnant in one year, 28% in typical use, and 18% in perfect
> use.  Divide 100% by 28%, and 18%, and see the risk is 1 in 3.57 women
> in typical use, and 1 in 5.55 women in perfect use will get pregnant in
> a year with just spermicide.
>
> For the withdrawal method it shows 22% in typical use and 4% in perfect
> use.  Divide 100% by 22% and 4%, and see the risk is 1 in 4.54 women in
> typical use, and 1 in 25 women in perfect use will get pregnant in a
> year with just withdrawal.
>
> An individual's risk must fall somewhere in between those two, depending
> on how likely they are to be among those who fail to use the birth
> control perfectly, and end up increasing the statistic for typical use.
>
> I find it interesting that people sometimes advocate the use of
> spermicide with condoms (or the diaphragm), but more rarely advocate
> withdrawal as a 2nd method concurrently.  They should.  The withdrawal
> method is more effective than spermicide according to the chart; and
> like spermicide, when combined with another type of birth control, the
> chance of both failing at the same time make its use even more
> important.  Though the responsibility and control over this method
> remain in the hands of the man - who should take as much responsibility
> for birth control as the woman, it's an important method for males.
> Though the woman should take her own responsibility and not expect or
> rely on the male if not engaging in repeated activities with a known and
> trusted partner.
>
>
>>
>> *1 in 10,000 is of course less than 1 in 2,000.
>


Hi, actually, girls should just use the sponge and the condom, and boys 
should just use the pull-out and the condom. Boys and girls should never 
use the sponge or the pull-out without any other methods, but when 
either is used in conjunction with another method, the increase in 
safety is so significant that it must be mentioned repeatedly. It's kind 
of silly for a girl who is not already in a repeated sexual relationship 
to be on hormonal birth control for the sake of pregnancy. I mean, a 
girl could go three years on Implanon without ever having sex, whether 
she's 14 or 34. The sponge and condom concurrently provide about as much 
safety for a female as the pull-out method and the condom concurrently 
do a male. The female can only count on those two methods of the sponge 
and the condom (until with a male she knows well sexually) while it's 
possible the male could count on all three, as he could put a sponge in 
a female (wash hands first to avoid introducing harmful bacteria into 
the vaginal canal!), and thus could count on all of the three 
non-prescription, non-invasive, methods himself. Nevertheless, the 
female could tell the male to pull-out, and that she wants him to cum on 
her Tits. But she can't and shouldn't count on it (unless possibly in an 
ongoing and trustworthy relationship). The sponge along with the condom, 
will work well for the female for spontaneous sex, while a $50 diaphragm 
(prescription) is an easy and less expensive alternative to the sponge 
for sex that is more anticipated; i.e. a boyfriend coming over for the 
night. A sponge is probably easier to carry than a diaphragm that 
requires a tube of spermicide and more preparation to put in. As soon as 
a first instance of sex becomes a repeated sexual relationship, a female 
can switch to a diaphragm when sex is more expected, and save money and 
be a little safer, or persist with the sponge when it remains 
spontaneous. Or, the female can at that point consider one of the 5 
types of hormonal birth control:
1. The Implant
2. Injections
3. The Vaginal Ring
4. The Patch
5. The Birth Control Pill - there are actually 3 different types of 
birth control pills, thus equating to 7 different types of hormonal 
methods total.
And, there is also the IUD.

Hormonal methods and the IUD sometimes have side effects however!

Implanon has been reported to cause mental changes.

The diaphragm, the sponge, the condom, and pull-out method have no such 
side effects. On the other hand, some women want hormonal birth control 
to stop or regulate their period.

So consider and read about, the psychological and physiological risks of 
hormonal birth control and the IUD, and watch out for any changes if you 
start using them.

The risks of pregnancy using the sponge and the condom together, as 
mentioned above, thus are calculated as follows (explained below) from:
https://www.arhp.org/Publications-and-Resources/Quick-Reference-Guide-for-Clinicians/choosing/failure-rates-table
(parous means "birth," nulli means "not;" not birth = not mothers)

Condoms and Pull-Out
Typical use: 1 in 2,730, perfect use 1 in 125,000

Condom and Diaphragm:
Typical use: 1 in 4,998, perfect use 1 in 83,350

Condoms and Sponge in women who have not had babies-"Nulliparous women:"
Typical use: 1 in 4,998, perfect use 1 in 55,550

Condoms and Sponge in mothers who have had babies -"Parous women:"
Typical use: 1 in 2,502, perfect use 1 in 25,000

These are the yearly risks of 100 sex acts inclusive, presuming the 
statistical snake-eyes theory of calculation described below makes 
sense, and that the risks given on the webpage are based upon 100 sex 
acts per year (they may only be based upon 80, in which case, divide the 
above risks by 100 and multiply by 80, for 80 sex acts inclusive. - For 
each additional year of active sex, the risk goes up! 2 years, twice the 
risk, 10 years, 10x the risk!).

These statistics are calculated as follows:
For the sponge alone, by itself we see from the chart on the webpage:
Mothers who have given birth "Parous women," 24% in typical use, and 20% 
in perfect use, in a given year of consistent sex will get pregnant, 
that's about 1 in 4 to 1 in 5.

and women who have not given birth "Nulliparous women,"
we see 12% in typical use, and 9% in perfect use in a given year of 
consistent sex will get pregnant, that's about 1 in 8 to 1 in 10.

So, as I just described, if you divide 24%, 20%, 12% and 9% each into 
100%, you get the exact calculations of the numbers I suggest, and see 
that for Mothers "Parous women" 1 in 4.17 mothers in typical use and 1 
in 5 mothers in perfect use will get pregnant using only the sponge 
alone from a year of consistent sex, and for non-mothers "Nulliparous 
women," 1 in 8.33 in typical use, and 1 in 11.11 in perfect use will get 
pregnant with the sponge alone from a year of consistent sex.

For the diaphragm alone, we see from the chart on the webpage, 12% in 
typical use, and 6% in perfect use in a given year of consistent sex 
will get pregnant. Thus if you divide 12% and 6% into 100%, you get
1 in 8.33 in typical use, and 1 in 16.67 in perfect use, will get 
pregnant with the diaphragm alone, from a year of consistent sex.

For the condom alone, - we see from the chart on the webpage, 18% in 
typical use, and 2% in perfect use, in a given year of consistent sex 
will get pregnant. Thus if you divide 18% and 2% into 100%, you get
1 in 6 in typical use, and 1 in 50 in perfect use, will get pregnant 
with the condom alone, from a year of consistent sex. (Other sources 
suggest in typical use condoms may be slightly safer than 18% - like 
maybe 16.66%).

And for withdrawal, as noted in messages above, we see from the chart on 
the webpage, 22% in typical use, and 4% in perfect use, in a given year 
of consistent sex will get pregnant. Thus if you divide 22% and 4% into 
100%, you get 1 in 4.55 in typical use, and 1 in 25 in perfect use will 
get pregnant with the withdrawal method alone, from a year of consistent 
sex.

The yearly risks of birth control are given based upon 80-100 sex acts. 
But when 2 types of birth control are used, the per act risk times the 
per act risk must be considered first. Only then may the number of 
yearly acts actually committed determine the actual risk - 80-100 acts 
per year here - to come up with the normal yearly risk. Thus merely 
multiplying the _yearly risk_ times the _yearly risk_ makes the yearly 
risk of pregnancy apparently appear greater than it really is, as the 
per act risk must be multiplied by the per act risk _first_, and then 
multiplied times the number of actual acts. To describe further:
If one rolled one die, the chance it came up with the "1" dot side up is 
1/6. If one rolls two dice together, the chance both come up with the 
"1" dot sides up together - called "snake eyes" - is 1 in 36 or 1/36 
which is exactly equal to 1/6 x 1/6. You may check this fact by 
realizing that for each of the 6 sides on the first die that may come 
up, there are 6 possibilities of the second die that may come up with it.
Further, if one rolls one die by itself again, 3 times this time, the 
chance the "1" dot side comes up with that one die, is 3 chances in 6, 
or 3/6. Yet, if one rolls both dice 3 times together, the chance of 
"snake eyes," is not 3/6 x 3/6 = 9/36, but rather 3 in 36, or 3/36.
3/36, not 9/36. So for these birth control statistics, I presume we have 
to multiply the per act risk, times the per act risk, _first_, and then 
multiply by the number of sex acts, to get the true risk. As the yearly 
risks given by the chart above were already based upon (80 or) 100 sex 
acts, when we multiply the yearly risk times the yearly risk, we have 
factored 100 acts twice, and need to divide by 100 to get the right risk.

So to get the 4 above statistics

For the condom and the pull-out method (yearly risk) again, we see:
In typical use: 1/6(condoms) x 1/4.55(pull-out) x 1/100(sex acts double 
factored) = 1 in 2,730.
In perfect use: 1/50(condom perfect) x 1/25(pull-out perfect) x 
1/100(sex acts double factored) = 1 in 125,000.

For the condom and diaphragm (yearly risk) in all females, we see:
In typical use: 1/6(condoms) x 1/8.33(diaphragm) x 1/100(sex acts double 
counted) = 1 in 4,998.
In perfect use: 1/50(condom perfect) x 1/16.67(diaphragm perfect) x 
1/100 (sex acts per year double counted) = 1 in 83,350.

For the condom and sponge in Nulliparous girls non-mothers, we see: In 
In typical use: 1/6(condoms) x 1/8.33(sponge) x 1/100(sex acts double 
factored) = 1 in 4,998.
In perfect use: 1/50(condom perfect) x 1/11.11(sponge perfect) x 1/100 
(sex acts per year double factored)= 1 in 55,550.

For the condom and sponge in Parous women - mothers, we see:
In typical use: 1/6(condoms) x 1/4.17(sponge) x 1/100(sex acts double 
counted) = 1 in 2,502.
In perfect use: 1/50(condom perfect) x 1/5 (sponge perfect) x 1/100 (sex 
acts per year double counted)= 1 in 25,000.


So it's obvious that while the sponge alone, like the pull-out method, 
is not an effective method of birth control by itself - and neither much 
is the condom, - when any two are combined with one another, the risk 
becomes fairly acceptable.

(Note that by itself, in mothers, "Parous women," the sponge is more 
risky than the pull-out by itself, in typical and perfect use, both.)

So if you're female, use the sponge and a condom for spontaneous sex, as 
these can be carried and inserted easily, and get a prescription 
diaphragm which requires the use of spermicide, for immediate use in a 
repeated relationship (basically just because it's cheaper. Also in 
perfect use a little safer in non-mothers, and three times safer in 
mothers, and in typical use, equal risk in non-mothers and twice the 
safety in mothers) in which one can anticipate sex ahead of time - like 
a date with someone one has already had sex with. At $50 this is cheaper 
for someone not consistently sexually active, than is any hormonal birth 
control method. After in a repeated relationship, one can consider an 
IUD or a hormonal method (such as Implanon ($800 = over 3 
years=$266/year), (or the pill $15-$50/month=$180-$600/year)), or stick 
with the diaphragm and sponge plan.

The sponge is a bit pricey at $3-$5 each, but for 24 or so anticipated 
sex acts per year, that's only $72-$120, then one may switch to the 
diaphragm for repeated relationships - or pay $300-$500 per year to 
continue using the sponge for 100 sex acts. The Sponge is probably a 
better plan for spontaneous sex because you don't have to carry a tube 
of spermicide, and it may be easier to insert (remember to wash your 
hands first).

You can order the sponge online at Walmart here:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Today-Sponge-Vaginal-Contraceptive-Sponge-3-count/29314216

I encourage all men to order their daughters 10 boxes ($110-$150), and 
encourage them to carry one in their purse, changing it out at least 
once per month, along with 3 condoms. The sponge can be used all night, 
condoms may need to be changed.

Boys should also carry 3 condoms, plan to pull-out before they 
ejaculate, and try out various condom varieties in the Fleshlight before 
they have sex with them. So get your sons the Fleshlight.
And get your daughters the Jack-Rabbit vibrator, and/or a smaller 
vibrator or dildo especially if they're on the younger side, while 
you're at it. Girls can break their hymen with a dildo themselves, and 
then it won't hurt their first time, and they won't bleed and expose 
themselves to increased risk of disease for their first time.

Get both sons and daughters a supply of at least 90-100 condoms 
($40-$120 (or even less)), so they can carry 3 at a time for 36 months. 
I'm serious.

You might order them here, or get a variety pack online somewhere for 
the boys to test out in the Fleshlight, and get a variety you know is 
most comfortable for males for the girls.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/LifeStyles-Ultra-Sensitive-Condoms-40ct/17324884
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Lifestyles-Ultra-Sensitive-Premium-Lubricated-Latex-Condoms-14ct/16940435
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Trojan-Ultra-Ribbed-Premium-Lubricant-Condoms-Value-Pack-36-count/21000193

Queen size beds are a good idea, as minors should have sex in the safety 
of their own homes. Sexuality is a human right, and "wards," have rights 
as well - if as yet undefined -. It's kind of stupid to be counseled to 
talk to your kids about sex, and then be expected to have them to have 
sex in the back of a car.

In regards to the above risks, realize an individual's risk must fall 
somewhere in between typical and perfect use, depending on how likely 
they are to be among those who fail to use the birth control method 
perfectly, and end up increasing the statistic for typical use (wouldn't 
these typical use figures vary by year(?)).

Anyone from a teen to a 50-something could be on Implanon for 3 years 
and not have sex. If not already sexually active, a plan to carry the 
sponge - which can be used all night - and 3 condoms, is probably 
superior. When the relationship becomes repeated, the diaphragm is 
cheaper and a little safer to use than the sponge, for times when sex 
can be better anticipated (like a date with someone you've already had 
sex with).

If you use all 3 noninvasive methods - condoms / sponge(or diaphragm) / 
& pull-out; you're even safer. The snake eyes calculation would suggest 
the risk to be: (I'll just calculate for the riskiest "Parous" Mothers 
and sponge, and condoms and pull-out):

In typical use: 1/6(condoms) x 1/4.55(pull-out) x 1/100(sex acts double 
counted)
= 1 in 2,730 as calculated above for condoms and pull-out,
x 1/4.17(Sponge Typical "Parous" Mothers) x 1/100(sex acts double 
counted/factored again)
= 1/1,138,410

In perfect use: 1/50(condom perfect) x 1/25(pull-out perfect) x 
1/100(sex acts double factored)
= 1 in 125,000 as calculated above for condoms and pull-out,
x 1/5 (Sponge Perfect "Parous" Mothers) x 1/100(sex acts per year double 
factored/counted again)
= 1/62,500,000

A similar calculation for Typical use for the Sponge in Non-Mothers 
"Nulliparous," with typical use of condoms and pull-out, results in
= 1/2,274,090,

A similar calculation for Perfect use of Sponge in Non-Mothers 
"Nulliparous," with perfect use of condoms and pull-out, results in
= 1/138,875,000.

A similar calculation for Typical use for the Diaphragm, with Typical 
use of condoms and pull-out, also results in
= 1/2,274,090,
(same as typical use of sponge in non-mothers "nulliparous," as both 
12%, 1 in 8.33 in typical use by themselves)

A similar calculation for Perfect use of Diaphragm with Perfect use of 
condoms and pull-out, results in
= 1/208,375,000.


Keeping semen out of orifices is also a big way to reduce the risk of 
pregnancy and STI's. However at least two birth control methods must be 
used to reduce the risk of pregnancy effectively, and the condom must be 
used to reduce the risk of STI's effectively. Not all condoms are alike, 
some are thick, some are thin. Some make sex feel even better. I suggest 
males try out many of them - in the Fleshlight if they are less sexually 
active males, and see which feels best.

Both the sponge and the diaphragm must be left in place for at least six 
hours after the last act of intercourse. The sponge can be worn for up 
to 30 hours, thus it may be inserted only up to 20 hours or so before 
the first act of intercourse (depending on how long the act of 
intercourse may last for), and then left in place for six hours more.
The diaphragm may be worn for up to 24 hours. After 2-6 hours after 
initially inserting the diaphragm (some sources say 6, some sources say 
2, do you own research or ask your provider) you must insert more 
spermicide deep into the vagina if you intend to have sex again. Not so 
the sponge. Also, there are different types of diaphragms, with 
different types of springs in the rim, depending on one's vaginal tone.

Girls, use these birth control methods until you can figure out how to 
speak to your ovaries and tell them to naturally not release an egg and 
waste energy. And then tell them to release an egg on command. This 
should conceivably be possible somehow. And thereby you would be able to 
ovulate all your life without menopause - which typically happens 
between ages 40 and 60. I don't know. Just speculating.

I also wonder if the diaphragm or sponge might provide limited 
additional protection against HIV. For from female to male, the HIV is 
mostly on the mucous of the cervix of the female, which is blocked by 
the sponge or diaphragm, and from male to female, the sponge or 
diaphragm keeps the sperm from getting further into the female and her 
uterus, which I just imagine might limitedly decrease the risk of 
infection. However I have only read it said that condoms provide 
protection against HIV.

To provide protection against HIV, use condoms which make sex 10x safer 
according to some studies, and keep semen out of orifices, especially if 
you have cuts in mouth, and use condoms and pull-out for anal sex also, 
or don't have anal sex at all. The gay men and the intravenous drug 
users are much more liable to have it so are much more liable to spread 
it. The more one has sex the higher the increase in risk (unlike some 
diseases which transmit immediately). One could get a test before 
continuing with a repeated partner forever.

And remember the religious commandment to "Love One Another."
Choose friends who are with your lives and protect your lives, not those 
who are not with your lives or endanger your lives.

For the purpose of sexual relationships is friendship, love and honor 
and happiness.

And the purpose of the law is humanity, and the law is nothing without 
humanity:

Matt 22:35
Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and 
saying, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your 
heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first 
and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your 
neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and 
the Prophets.”

I translate this to mean, love yourself, and love others. i.e. the law 
is nothing without humanity. The purpose of the law is humanity, and not 
idol worship or idolatry. God is the Creator of the Self, who is born 
again anew in each new moment, and no concept of God has any meaning 
without a concept of your Self as well. To know and love the Living 
Creator of the Self, you must first know and love your Self. You will 
not know yourself while condemning others for rightful things!

Rather you should love others as yourself, and choose others who 
endeavor to do in kind. People sometimes make mistakes, but choose 
others who are good at heart.

Thus, the purpose of the law is humanity, and the law is nothing without 
humanity.

Merry Christmas!

----------

This link contains links, especially two links at the bottom, with other 
research into STD's and pregnancy prevention:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/5$20reasons$20to$20use$20condoms/alt.religion.christian.intervarsity/v2EDdb5_q7Q/MJRwdffHCHoJ

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Re: Everyone Uses the Condom - Girls also use Implanon or NexplanonT - Boys also use the pull-out method. "Tom Mr." <TomRR@Rolls.com> - 2016-01-03 14:21 -0800
  Re: Everyone Uses the Condom - Girls also use Implanon or NexplanonT - Boys also use the pull-out method. Pregnancy Prevention <SafeSex@pregnancyprevention.com> - 2016-02-01 12:55 -0800

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