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Re: Future Advances in Physics...

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On 12/21/2015 1:00 PM, benj wrote:
> On 12/21/2015 03:57 AM, Timo wrote:
>> On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 6:27:33 PM UTC+10, benj wrote:
>>> On 12/19/2015 04:22 PM, Timo wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, December 20, 2015 at 6:17:11 AM UTC+10, nu...@bid.nes
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 11:38:40 PM UTC-8, benj
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So, you want to be the next "Einstein" developing the next
>>>>>> big thing in physics. Where you do investigate?
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC Einstein wasn't a professional physicist when he published
>>>>> his first "big thing".
>>>>
>>>> Between PhD and academic position. The job market back then
>>>> wasn't walk-into-tenure.
>>>>
>>>> His PhD work was mainstream statistical mechanics
>>>> (thermodynamics). A relatively new and innovative field at the
>>>> time. His "big things":
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annus_Mirabilis_papers included
>>>> stuff straight from that work (Brownian motion, for long his
>>>> most-cited paper, though iirc the approach of 2005 changed that),
>>>> and (at least some of) the others were influenced by it.
>>>>
>>>> The Einstein lesson is that if you want to overthrow orthodox
>>>> physics in a revolution, do a PhD in orthodox physics. Revolution
>>>> comes from the inside.
>>>>
>>>> As for "forbidden", he published his revolutionary work in
>>>> mainstream physics journals. Many of the older generation of
>>>> German physicists immediately recognised the quality and value of
>>>> his work. He got the tail end of the multiple Nobel Prizes for
>>>> the thermodynamics of light (Wien and Planck got the others). To
>>>> try to redo Einstein, train within the system, do a PhD within
>>>> the system, and have a Good Idea. Publish. And don't be surprised
>>>> if you end up working in patent law after your PhD (this part
>>>> still happens today).
>>>>
>>> I will not review the history of this situation except to note
>>> that Einstein never got a Nobel prize for any "relativity" work
>>> even though the everyone in the world were falling all over
>>> themselves proclaiming he was science God of the Cosmos.
>>> Coincidence?
>>
>> Might be partly due to the fact that a whole bunch of people came up
>> with the maths of special relativity before Einstein. Einstein
>> contributed a nice first-principles derivation of that maths, but the
>> results were already there. For GR, he was more in the front. But
>> Nobel Prize favours practical results, and thermodynamics is more
>> practical than SR/GR, so that's the Nobel Prize.
>>
>> Do you think that the Nobel committees should favour celebrity
>> scientists? If not, nothing to worry about.
>>
>> Plenty of good revolutionary science misses out on Nobel Prizes. So
>> what?
>>
>> The point remains: he was trained within the system, published within
>> the system, and the system accepted the revolutionary results. No
>> outsiders involved.
>
> So you subscribe to the idea that unless you are "one of us" you can not
> be allowed to contribute anything and anything you try to contribute
> should be censored, suppressed and tainted so that nobody will dare
> discuss it?  And of curse implicit in this is the old argument that one
> may not criticize what we are doing unless you are one of us (and of
> course once you ARE one of us you've been indoctrinated with the "proper
> ideas" and we control your career to keep you in line should you choose
> to step out for some inexplicable reason!)
>

I didn't read that into anything Timo said. He was explaining, and I 
agree, that lots of revolutionary physics is done all the time, and it 
is rewarded with attention and impact if it pans out. Nobel prizes are 
awarded for that kind of work. So the statement that revolutionary 
physics is unilaterally suppressed is just an obvious falsehood.

He went on to say, and I agree, that revolutionary physics seems to be 
almost always done by those are well trained by the physics 
establishment and who publish in physics establishment publication 
channels. It is almost always done by professional physicists, and you'd 
be hard pressed to find a Nobel prize winner that wasn't.

This doesn't say that everyone else is being "disallowed" from talking 
about "forbidden" subjects. What you will find is that lack of attention 
for amateur physicists working on forbidden subjects is almost always 
due to the crappy work done by them.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Re: Future Advances in Physics... "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-12-19 12:17 -0800
  Re: Future Advances in Physics... Timo <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-12-19 13:22 -0800
    Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-12-21 03:27 -0500
      Re: Future Advances in Physics... Timo <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-12-21 00:57 -0800
        Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-21 14:00 -0500
          Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-21 14:21 -0600
            Re: Future Advances in Physics... Timo <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-12-21 17:12 -0800
              Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-21 21:44 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 07:53 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 13:12 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 12:34 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 18:13 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 08:14 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 14:03 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 16:16 -0800
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 22:24 -0800
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2015-12-27 14:03 -0800
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 16:48 -0800
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 12:38 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 18:20 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 08:16 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 14:09 -0500
            Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-21 21:20 -0500
              Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 07:38 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 13:03 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 12:23 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 17:56 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 17:46 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 20:11 -0800
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 05:14 -0800
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 08:21 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-12-24 00:48 -0800
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-24 11:13 -0600
              Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 07:44 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 13:05 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 12:28 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 18:03 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 10:14 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 10:32 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 22:00 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 21:57 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-24 11:12 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-24 21:19 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 13:03 -0600
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 14:12 -0500
                Re: Future Advances in Physics... "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 22:22 -0800

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