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Re: Do neutrinos really have masses?

From Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Do neutrinos really have masses?
Date 2015-12-20 09:44 +0100
Organization Good company
Message-ID <n55pla$aon$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (18 earlier) <n4v6v7$n28$1@speranza.aioe.org> <n4v7pv$4k3$1@dont-email.me> <n4vagd$v0r$1@speranza.aioe.org> <n4vcf5$tk9$1@dont-email.me> <n4vg1a$bm3$1@speranza.aioe.org>

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Dne 18/12/2015 v 00:21 Odd Bodkin napsal(a):
> On 12/17/2015 4:22 PM, Poutnik wrote:
> 
>>
>> But, some parameters of the reality model
>> may be right, within their errors, and some are wrong.
>>
> 
> And again, how would you know which of them correspond to reality and 
> which of them correspond only to a model that seems to work really well?

They are part of model, which correspondsence to reality
is better for some paremeters and worse in others.

> 
> Put it another way.
> Suppose you want to use science to create a thing that does a desired 
> behavior. So you apply a model that says, if you arrange these things in 
> a certain way, then you will observe that, in a certain circumstance, 
> the system produces a desired behavior. And so you build it, presumably 
> out of real things, and it did exactly what you designed it to do. Now 
> the question is, did the model produce the outcome or did the real thing 
> you built produce the outcome? And if the real thing did produce the 
> outcome, can you say WHY it produced the outcome? Or do you just say, I 
> have no real idea WHY it produced the outcome, I just know what the 
> model predicts and I used that model?
> 
I am afraid you try to create B/W world. identity versus no relation.
IMHO It is somewhere in the middle,
as our models of reality say reality does not like extremes. :-)

Let suppose it is a paper copy device.

There are multiple models and several real objects.

A model as an scientific idea about rules and relations,
about how the reality "works".

A model as an engineer idea
how the device, giving desired behaviour, should be constructed.

A model as a builder/robot feedback idea,
how the device construction makes progress.

A model as a device user's idea,
what the device construction is like and works like,
as a bigger part of his dynamic model of the world.

According to the device user's model,
if he interacts with an object detail,
described by the device model as a document cover,
and puts there an object,
described in his world model as a par\per document
if he interacts with another object detail,
described in his device model as a big green button,
then the reality object, produces other object,
that your dynamic model of the world
describes as a printed sheet of paper,
looking almost identically as the original object,
that hisa model of world describes as a paper document.


-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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Do neutrinos really have masses? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2015-12-11 09:06 -0800
  Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? omnilobe@gmail.com - 2015-12-11 09:59 -0800
  Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-11 10:05 -0800
    Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-11 12:25 -0600
      Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-11 13:57 -0800
        Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-11 22:48 -0600
          Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 12:27 -0800
            Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 15:31 -0600
              Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 22:47 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-14 04:54 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-12-14 05:28 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-14 08:36 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-15 00:54 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-15 07:20 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-12-15 07:18 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-15 09:39 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-15 11:44 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-16 03:15 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-15 11:47 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-12-15 13:45 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-15 16:06 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-15 16:08 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-15 16:09 -0600
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                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-12-16 02:16 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-16 03:05 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-16 06:59 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-17 02:42 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 09:43 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-17 14:12 -0500
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                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-16 03:30 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-16 07:34 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-12-16 15:54 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-16 09:04 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-12-16 16:25 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-17 02:34 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 09:13 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 21:21 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 14:46 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 22:03 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 15:46 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 23:22 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 17:14 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-12-18 10:44 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-18 07:56 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 09:16 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 17:21 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 09:44 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 01:26 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 21:25 +0100
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                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 22:58 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-18 00:31 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-18 08:00 +0100
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                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Ezra Farrow <ezrafa@dubtechno.org> - 2015-12-18 23:19 +0000
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                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 09:32 -0800
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                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-24 12:09 -0800
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                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Ezra Farrow <ezrafa@dubtechno.org> - 2015-12-20 12:44 +0000
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 14:10 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 10:39 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 11:47 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 15:20 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-18 07:48 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-18 15:29 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 01:00 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 00:54 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-12-15 18:11 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-16 03:41 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-12-16 10:42 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-17 02:47 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 20:55 +0100
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? dobri karagorgov <dobrikarate.gov@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 12:24 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-18 15:30 -0500
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                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2015-12-15 13:53 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-16 03:33 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-14 09:59 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-15 03:37 -0500
              Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 17:42 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 20:57 -0500
  Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-11 12:07 -0600
    Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 10:03 -0800
      Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? NoeDOTNatDOTNoe <dedanoe@gmail.com> - 2015-12-17 10:24 -0800
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  Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 02:30 -0800
  Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-14 04:44 -0500
    Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-12-14 06:36 -0800
    Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-20 09:46 -0800
      Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 18:58 +0100
        Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-22 10:16 -0800
          Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-23 13:00 -0500
            Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-23 15:57 -0800
              Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-26 07:45 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-27 09:01 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 12:24 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-27 16:51 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 20:13 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-27 23:58 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-28 06:55 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-28 08:37 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-28 20:31 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 08:25 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 08:30 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-29 08:45 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 10:50 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-29 09:22 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 11:28 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-29 09:59 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 10:34 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 12:48 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-29 11:38 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 13:52 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 11:50 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-29 10:18 -0800
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                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-29 11:45 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 13:54 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-29 13:20 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 16:53 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 16:13 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-29 16:20 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 18:23 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 17:49 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "Sam Jones" <invalid@example.com> - 2015-12-30 20:38 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-12-31 05:55 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-31 09:45 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-31 13:04 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 16:25 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-30 11:31 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 10:55 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 13:04 -0600
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? dobri karagorgov <dobrikarate.gov@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 11:24 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 09:14 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-30 09:53 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-30 09:49 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-29 08:11 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-30 11:40 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-31 08:35 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-12-31 16:11 -0500
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Raymond Yohros <bat@birdband.net> - 2015-12-31 14:34 -0800
                Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-01-01 02:57 -0500
  Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? SEKI <seki.hajime01@gmail.com> - 2015-12-14 07:25 -0800
  Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-14 13:32 -0800
  Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-15 14:23 -0800
  Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-18 09:35 -0800
    Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-18 11:47 -0600
      Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-18 10:24 -0800
  Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-18 13:28 -0800
    Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-18 16:33 -0600
  Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 10:09 -0800
    Re: Do neutrinos really have masses? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 13:53 -0600

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