Re: Forward declarations

From	BartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Forward declarations
Date	2015-11-12 09:58 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<n21nnb$dus$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<868218d9-3441-42d4-8006-7684e9f034fa@googlegroups.com> <n1vjru$45r$1@dont-email.me>

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On 11/11/2015 14:40, David Brown wrote:
> On 10/11/15 23:20, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> What's the standard C compiler command line switch allowing one to
>> turn off the REQUIREMENT of having forward declarations in a source
>> file here in 2015 when hard disk space, memory, and CPU power render
>> the requirement absolutely and completely unnecessary?

> Hyperbole aside, there are several reasons for having declarations in
> addition to definitions.
>
> It is definitely the case that declarations in advance of usage make it
> easier to implement a compiler - without them, the compiler would have
> to build up bits of its parse trees as it goes along, filling in the
> missing bits when it has more information.

That would only be the case, for a language with C-like syntax, for 
things such as typedefs, where you need to know that something is the 
name of a type in order to easily parse what follows.

That is not necessary for function names (nor label names, but C has 
already figured that one out). Variables can be declared later on too, 
but C requires them to be declared before use, and I prefer that anyway.)

> However, it would not be hard to have a compiler that first ran through
> the pre-processed file and sorted the file into type definitions,
> variable declarations, variable definitions, function declarations, then
> function definitions.  For each function definition, it could create a
> forward definition and squeeze that in before the function definitions,
> and then compile the whole lot.  Off-hand I cannot think of any reason
> why that might not work, but I would want a good deal more thought and
> opinion before calling it problem-free.

I've done that (in a source-to-source converter) and it appears to work. 
It neatly segregates module-scope or exported local typedefs, local 
variables, local function prototypes, imported versions of all those, 
followed by local or exported function definitions.

> As for scaling, and cpu power and memory, then it is clear that you
> haven't worked on large-scale projects.  There are plenty of projects
> that take /hours/ to compile and link when doing a full re-build.

(I don't think any project of mine would have got to the point where a 
development cycle would take hours. I would first explore what is 
possible with things such as dynamic linking, so that different parts 
can be developed separately, and the off-loading of as much 
functionality as possible onto interpreted languages which don't have a 
build time.

If that wasn't enough I would look at speeding up the tools as much as 
possible: writing a linker isn't that hard for example. But then, it is 
also possible that some projects are unnecessarily complex, and I 
wouldn't have allowed that to happen either!)

-- 
Bartc

Thread

Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 14:20 -0800
  Re: Forward declarations jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2015-11-10 23:38 +0100
    Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 15:00 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-11 12:24 +1300
        Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 15:53 -0800
          Re: Forward declarations gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-11-11 00:01 +0000
          Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-11 13:46 +1300
            Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 21:05 -0800
    Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-11 00:21 +0000
  Re: Forward declarations Lőrinczy Zsigmond <zsiga@nospam.for.me> - 2015-11-11 10:16 +0100
    Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:19 -0800
  Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-11 15:40 +0100
    Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:21 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:23 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-11 16:29 +0100
        Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:31 -0800
        Re: Forward declarations Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2015-11-13 18:20 +0000
          Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-13 10:39 -0800
            Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-13 19:40 +0000
          Re: Forward declarations Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-14 11:42 -0800
            Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 12:32 -0800
              Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 00:15 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 16:34 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 01:54 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 18:00 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 02:13 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 18:26 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 02:34 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-15 11:11 +0000
              Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 02:36 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 19:25 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 19:37 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 20:11 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 10:36 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 06:16 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-15 14:44 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 09:41 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 18:26 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-15 18:42 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 18:53 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 12:58 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 12:49 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-16 10:01 +1300
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 14:54 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 09:53 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-15 10:36 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 12:56 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-16 10:04 +1300
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 13:11 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-16 10:25 +1300
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 13:37 -0800
              Re: Forward declarations Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-15 13:13 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 13:16 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-16 00:23 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 16:20 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-16 00:47 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-16 01:28 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-16 01:57 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-15 21:15 -0500
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-16 11:05 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-16 10:18 -0500
                Re: Forward declarations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-16 06:44 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-16 11:26 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-16 12:43 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-16 12:20 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-16 14:38 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-16 13:26 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-16 13:53 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 18:12 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations pa@see.signature.invalid (Pierre Asselin) - 2015-11-12 01:54 +0000
        Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 02:08 -0800
    Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-12 09:58 +0000
  Re: Forward declarations John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 14:46 -0800
    Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 14:59 -0800
    Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-17 23:35 +0000
      Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-17 23:40 +0000
        Re: Forward declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-17 19:48 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-18 01:04 +0000

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