Re: Forward declarations

From	Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Forward declarations
Date	2015-11-11 13:46 +1300
Message-ID	<dafhf9F7r8hU4@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<868218d9-3441-42d4-8006-7684e9f034fa@googlegroups.com> <n1trh2$m32$1@dont-email.me> <68a29662-76c7-42fa-a4a5-8b4efa4a5dae@googlegroups.com> <dafckrF7r8hU3@mid.individual.net> <d0812d1c-0a0c-4880-b852-076092f70f51@googlegroups.com>

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Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 6:24:24 PM UTC-5, Ian Collins wrote:
>> Have you ever tried building a big real world project?
>>
>> I often make test builds of my main OS and they are far from quick, even
>> on a $20K build box.  Headers and declarations get written once and as
>> Jacob says, are easy for the human reader to find and read.  My vote
>> goes to speeding up builds over a trivial reduction in typing.
>
> Here's something to think on, Ian... how many of those big project
> source files have changed?  How many lines of code have actually
> changed?  Why recompile the whole project when only a few things
> have changed?  And why not create a programming environment where
> the changes you make, as you make them, are applied throughout the
> system so that the change you've just made is applied immediately?

Because most projects aren't one man shows.  There may be dozens or 
hundreds of developers and scores of commits to the project each day.  I 
don't know what changes someone else has made when I pull their changes, 
but the build system does.  If one of those changes touches a 
significant header, the rebuild will be big.

> We are doing it wrong today.  It's the way that was required back
> when computers ate oats and drank water and you had to have them
> shod every few months.  But today they run on gasoline and diesel
> fuel and can go 100,000 miles or more with little more than oil
> changes and new tires.
>
> Do you see where I'm coming from?

Ignorance of large scale software development?

I don't intend that is an insult, just an observation.  Most of your 
tool ideas would work reasonably well for very small projects, but they 
would not scale to a real world distributed development.

-- 
Ian Collins

Thread

Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 14:20 -0800
  Re: Forward declarations jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2015-11-10 23:38 +0100
    Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 15:00 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-11 12:24 +1300
        Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 15:53 -0800
          Re: Forward declarations gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-11-11 00:01 +0000
          Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-11 13:46 +1300
            Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 21:05 -0800
    Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-11 00:21 +0000
  Re: Forward declarations Lőrinczy Zsigmond <zsiga@nospam.for.me> - 2015-11-11 10:16 +0100
    Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:19 -0800
  Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-11 15:40 +0100
    Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:21 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:23 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-11 16:29 +0100
        Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:31 -0800
        Re: Forward declarations Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2015-11-13 18:20 +0000
          Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-13 10:39 -0800
            Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-13 19:40 +0000
          Re: Forward declarations Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-14 11:42 -0800
            Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 12:32 -0800
              Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 00:15 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 16:34 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 01:54 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 18:00 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 02:13 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 18:26 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 02:34 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-15 11:11 +0000
              Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 02:36 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 19:25 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 19:37 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 20:11 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 10:36 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 06:16 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-15 14:44 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 09:41 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 18:26 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-15 18:42 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 18:53 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 12:58 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 12:49 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-16 10:01 +1300
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 14:54 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 09:53 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-15 10:36 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 12:56 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-16 10:04 +1300
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 13:11 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-16 10:25 +1300
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 13:37 -0800
              Re: Forward declarations Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-15 13:13 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 13:16 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-16 00:23 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 16:20 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-16 00:47 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-16 01:28 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-16 01:57 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-15 21:15 -0500
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-16 11:05 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-16 10:18 -0500
                Re: Forward declarations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-16 06:44 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-16 11:26 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-16 12:43 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-16 12:20 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-16 14:38 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-16 13:26 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-16 13:53 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 18:12 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations pa@see.signature.invalid (Pierre Asselin) - 2015-11-12 01:54 +0000
        Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 02:08 -0800
    Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-12 09:58 +0000
  Re: Forward declarations John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 14:46 -0800
    Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 14:59 -0800
    Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-17 23:35 +0000
      Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-17 23:40 +0000
        Re: Forward declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-17 19:48 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-18 01:04 +0000

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