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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #151312

Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow

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In article <d5jhavFa8joU1@mid.individual.net>,
Jim Thomas <JT@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> wrote in message 
>news:d5jagfF8i21U1@mid.individual.net...
>> "Jim Thomas" wrote:
>>
>>> "Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message
>>
>>>> But I've seen that change, once I actually read the message, the number 
>>>> changes to match the actual size of the message.
>>>
>>> Not surprising if it initially has just the header and can't
>>> work out the actual size until it has downloaded it when
>>> reading online.
>
>> Is that common?
>
>Is what common ?  Reading online ?  Plenty clearly do that.
>
>It's obvious that some like Morten and Barb don't, their posts
>clearly show up in bursts which shows that they are replying
>offline but that isn't true of most of the rest of the posters.

I read news the way $DEITY intended, offline. 
Probably in some place with rotten or non-existant connectivity,
like a plane, commuter train, or out in the wilderness. I do run batch updates
when I reach somewhere connected. Which may go days between updates, 
even in very well connected Scandinavia.

>> All this fuss about retention is simply retention of the *header*?
>
>That is a separate matter entirely unless I have misunderstood you.
>
>> ISTM that implies that the first site that processes  a message (or 
>> someone) is expected to retain it forever.
>
>Not sure what you mean there.

Bried recap of news handling.

There are two basic protocols, NNTP and NNRP. (Network News Transfer
Protocol and NN Reader Protocol).

When you read and post news online you usually use NNRP, where a server
supplies message-id lists, headers or entire messages to the reader.
When you ask for a newsgroup summary the protocol sends the headers from
some reference number (usually a monotonously increasing integer) to the
end of messages, or to some predefined count. You then peruse the messages, 
and get to download the actual message.

NNTP is for server-to-server communications, and is based on flooding
of messages, where every server keeps an online link to all neighbours
(a tcp session) where the server says "IHAVE <message-id>" when it has
a new message. The other server then checks if it has that message, and
may ask "HEAD <message-id>" or "READ <message-id>" (from vague memory, 
someone more intimate with the protocols may correct this) to read it,
or to check if it fits with the newsgroups it is configured to carry.

The NNTP setup requires all servers to more or less have 100% uptime and
is a pure transmission vehicle. Retention does not have to be more than
the max retransmission interval. NNRP on the other hand requires quite
substantial retention.

>> Could you elaborate on this?
>
>It's not clear to me what you want elaborated.
>
>I was just commenting on what the usenet client
>shows number lines wise and size of message
>wise.  I wasn't commenting on anything else. 

There is a header element, "Lines: n" which contain a count of the lines
in the posting. This is supposed to be the count of header and all content.

-- mrr

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all those packages still need to be delivered somehow jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2015-09-09 19:02 +0000
  Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-09-10 18:11 +0000
    Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-09-11 12:48 +0000
      Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-09-11 09:34 -0500
        Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-09-12 13:24 +0000
          Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-09-12 11:17 -0400
            Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow "Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com> - 2015-09-13 04:35 +1000
              Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-09-12 13:50 -0500
                Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow "Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com> - 2015-09-13 06:47 +1000
                Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-09-13 13:43 +0000
                Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow "Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com> - 2015-09-14 04:22 +1000
                Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-09-14 12:50 +0000
                Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow "Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com> - 2015-09-15 04:37 +1000
                Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-09-14 19:13 +0000
                Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow "Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com> - 2015-09-15 09:10 +1000
                Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-09-13 22:45 +0200
                Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-09-12 16:59 -0500
          Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-09-14 13:32 +0000
            Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow "Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com> - 2015-09-15 04:46 +1000
              Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-09-14 19:55 +0000
                Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-09-14 18:12 -0500
                Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow "Jim Thomas" <JT@nospam.com> - 2015-09-15 09:16 +1000
            Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-09-15 13:07 +0000
              Re: all those packages still need to be delivered somehow mrr@sambook.reistad.name (Morten Reistad) - 2015-09-15 16:15 +0200

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