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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #361795

Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN
Date 2015-08-25 09:05 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <mrhsmn$98j$2@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <f91c5eee-240e-4f8e-a29d-d4e3a897a363@googlegroups.com> <mrfnfi$bl2$1@speranza.aioe.org> <d269c971-71ea-45a3-b45e-e3a1d22e319e@googlegroups.com> <mrhpvt$36f$1@speranza.aioe.org> <107e458a-9190-4bba-87ef-7c08e535d035@googlegroups.com>

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On 8/25/2015 8:58 AM, kenseto wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 9:18:57 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 8/25/2015 7:19 AM, kenseto wrote:
>>> On Monday, August 24, 2015 at 2:23:52 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 8/24/2015 12:47 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, August 24, 2015 at 11:30:49 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/23/2015 5:39 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 12:05:33 PM UTC-4, tjrob137 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/22/15 8/22/15   9:13 AM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:34:19 AM UTC-4, tjrob137 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> But it it NOT the light "changing its own wavelength".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So does that imply that you agree that the wavelength of a specfic source is
>>>>>>>>> universal......eg the universal wavelength of sodium is 589 nm?
>>>>>>>> YOU HAVE TO READ WHAT I WROTE.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Light does not "have" a wavelength, only suitable MEASUREMENTS of light
>>>>>>>> attribute a wavelength to it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The better alternate explanation is that every light source have have a universal
>>>>>>> wavelength in a medium called the E-Matrix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think physicists disagree with you.
>>>>>
>>>>> So??? Whatt I said is better than the assertion that the one-way speed of light is constant c
>>>>> independent of the motion of the source or the observer.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know why you think it's better.
>>>
>>> Constant c violates our definition of relative speed.....
>>
>> Who is "our" here? Your definition of relative speed doesn't seem to
>> match anything I've ever seen written in books.
>
> I didn't give you my definition of relative speed. I gave you the ppossible ways that  relative
> speed is generated..

Well, that's YOUR concept of relative speed. YOUR concept of relative 
speed is a construct of individual speeds.

To physicists, this is not so. Relative speed is not built up from 
individual speeds.

Hence your concept of relative speed is completely different than the 
concept described by physicists.

>>
>>> The causes of relative motion between A (observer) and B(light front) are as follows:
>>> 1. A moves individually wrt B.
>>> 2. B moves indinidually wrt A.
>>> 3. Both A and B are each moving individually.
>>
>> Item 3 in particular doesn't look at all like what I've seen in books.
>
> You and I are standing side by side.....you started walking and I started walking....we
> caused a relative speed between us.

As I said, YOUR concept of relative speed has nothing to do with what 
physicists mean by the concept.

>> Relative speed doesn't come conceptually from a combination of
>> individual speeds, at least as far as scientists are concerned.
>>
>>>
>>> None of the above causes of relative motion can satisfy the assertion that B is always moving
>>> at a constant speed.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You asked if Tom's earlier statement meant that agreed that the
>>>>>> wavelength of a specific source is universal. Tom has reiterated -- and
>>>>>> physicists agree -- that light does not have any wavelength, let alone a
>>>>>> universal one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Light certainly have wavelength.....like water waves in a pond.
>>>>
>>>> Light is nothing like water waves.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's the point.....Einstein invented the special properties for light to derive SR.
>>
>> Long before Einstein, light was known through OBSERVATION to be nothing
>> like water waves.
>>
>>> ...the sad
>>> thing is that there is no need for such invention.
>>>>
>>>>> The wavelength of the water waves
>>>>> does not change. The speed of arrival of water waves is dependent on the relative
>>>>> speed of the observer wrt the source.
>>>>
>>>> Light is nothing like water waves. This has been known for more than a century.
>>>
>>> No....this has been asserted for more than a century.
>>>
>>
>> No, known. By observation. No amount of thinking about what it should be
>> will ever trump observation.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Thread

EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-17 06:28 -0700
  Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-17 18:21 -0700
    Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Jason Burchett <jasb@h3ipotal.org> - 2015-08-19 15:12 +0000
    Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN alsor@interia.pl - 2015-08-21 08:27 -0700
  Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-18 00:50 -0700
    Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-18 05:34 -0700
      Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-18 06:20 -0700
        Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-18 20:07 -0700
        Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-19 01:16 -0700
          Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-19 05:39 -0700
          Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-22 18:48 -0700
      Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Karolina Vandeweghe <newisa@kerseyhouse.au> - 2015-08-19 20:03 +0000
        Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-21 09:34 -0500
          Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-21 08:15 -0700
            Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-21 12:10 -0500
              Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-21 10:28 -0700
              Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Karolina Vandeweghe <newisa@kerseyhouse.au> - 2015-08-21 17:31 +0000
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-21 15:47 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Karolina Vandeweghe <newisa@kerseyhouse.au> - 2015-08-22 09:10 +0000
              Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-08-21 19:35 +0200
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-21 11:44 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-08-21 20:59 +0200
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-21 13:12 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-08-21 22:24 +0200
          Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-08-21 17:56 +0200
          Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Karolina Vandeweghe <newisa@kerseyhouse.au> - 2015-08-21 17:19 +0000
            Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-21 21:03 -0500
              Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Karolina Vandeweghe <newisa@kerseyhouse.au> - 2015-08-22 09:05 +0000
              Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-08-22 20:09 +0200
          Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-21 21:21 -0700
          Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-22 07:13 -0700
            Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Karolina Vandeweghe <newisa@kerseyhouse.au> - 2015-08-22 15:58 +0000
            Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-22 11:05 -0500
              Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Karolina Vandeweghe <newisa@kerseyhouse.au> - 2015-08-22 16:19 +0000
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-22 17:09 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN James Birdy <jamesb@barefootwalking.org> - 2015-08-22 22:24 +0000
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-23 08:35 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-08-23 15:45 +0200
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-08-23 08:59 +0200
              Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-08-22 20:19 +0200
              Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-23 15:39 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 10:30 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-24 10:47 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 13:23 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-25 05:19 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-25 08:45 -0400
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 08:18 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-25 06:58 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 09:05 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-25 12:09 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 14:50 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-25 15:58 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-26 06:58 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-26 09:28 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-26 11:37 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-26 17:57 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-27 07:58 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-27 07:08 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-27 07:28 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-27 08:09 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-27 10:36 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-27 10:40 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-28 09:02 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 11:55 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-28 17:24 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-27 10:10 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-28 17:12 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 08:18 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-31 08:48 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 11:09 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-31 15:08 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 17:36 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-31 20:24 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 08:23 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-01 07:26 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 09:47 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-01 10:07 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 12:10 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-01 12:22 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 14:58 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-09-01 14:57 -0700
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 17:48 -0500
                Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-26 13:40 -0400
              Re: EINSTEINIANS TOPPLE EINSTEIN kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-08-24 10:35 -0700

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