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Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize"

From moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize"
Date 2015-08-11 15:04 +0000
Organization The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID <mqd2tl$d8f$2@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
References (14 earlier) <7bf25e4c-fa95-48f7-b7e7-1fe9752681a7@googlegroups.com> <mpoo5f$3kk$1@speranza.aioe.org> <b9bea2e0-b603-465a-8786-3c76fd12e85e@googlegroups.com> <mqathb$3ep$1@pcls7.std.com> <61206707-10a7-4207-bcfa-e867a80d884c@googlegroups.com>

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john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Odd and Michael:
>Delocalize?
>What does that even mean?

Go read a book on the topic.
"Delocalize" simply means the electrons aren't restricted to the simpler
two electron, two atom bonds taught in high school chemistry.  In benzene,
six electrons are delocalized over six carbon atoms.  Metals have electrons
delocalized over the entire chunk of metal.  That's why metals are 
metallic, John.

>You have no mechanism.
>You have no pathway.

Again, go read a book so you can understand the mechanism and pathway.

>You suddenly say that unlimited
>electrons can all go "wherever they
>are needed", instead of restricting
>orbitals to TWO.
>What are you thinking?

Orbitals are more complicated than what you learned in high school,
John.  You have to get the oversimplification of a little electron planet
orbiting a little nucleus sun out of your mind.

>Instead of trying to find sensible,
>logical, "obviously true" ANSWERS,
>you are letting QM say
>THERE IS NO KNOWING!!!!!

Odd has pointed out that QM accurately predicts to 12 decimal places.
That's hardly "no knowing"!!

You're stuck, John.  Stuck.

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Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 12:55 -0700
  Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-07-30 15:01 +0000
    Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-07-30 14:23 -0500
      Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Enomis Skating <anomis.edenomis@libero.it> - 2015-08-02 23:38 -0700
        Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 06:53 -0700
          Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 16:06 +0200
          Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 09:13 -0500
            Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 14:18 -0700
              Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 16:58 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 16:10 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 07:39 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 08:33 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 10:41 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 10:38 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 13:36 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 13:11 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 13:24 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 15:35 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 15:50 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 20:05 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 20:04 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 20:22 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 06:52 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 09:32 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 12:37 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 12:21 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 13:35 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 13:29 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 17:13 -0500
                curvature of Universe manifest; time is not a dimesnion per se noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 11:06 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Enomis Skating <anomis.edenomis@libero.it> - 2015-08-05 22:59 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 06:32 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 09:36 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 07:51 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 07:51 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 10:22 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 08:34 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 12:17 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 14:35 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 14:51 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 17:22 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 16:47 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 07:38 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 06:27 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 08:49 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 10:11 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 12:47 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 14:40 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 18:56 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 04:59 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 11:23 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 15:33 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 14:23 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 12:36 -0700
                "de- noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 15:45 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 09:00 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 10:17 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 09:54 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 13:55 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 11:38 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 13:49 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 18:27 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 06:41 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 05:50 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 09:16 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 06:41 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:38 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 10:52 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" BDK <Control@Worldcontrol.com> - 2015-08-11 14:49 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 14:51 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 05:30 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 07:56 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 16:28 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 18:21 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 08:15 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 08:55 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 15:30 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 15:28 -0500
                from there noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 13:21 -0700
                to noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 10:16 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 17:20 -0500
                mister Franz (sp.? noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 11:10 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 07:42 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 09:34 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Enomis Skating <anomis.edenomis@libero.it> - 2015-08-06 07:56 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 08:16 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 10:39 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 09:30 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 12:15 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 06:26 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 05:49 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-10 19:20 +0000
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 12:50 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 15:53 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 14:46 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 17:27 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 15:55 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-10 23:15 +0000
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 18:40 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 22:07 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:53 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 06:12 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 09:00 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:22 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 09:33 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:44 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 10:22 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 09:53 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:05 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 11:19 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:25 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 11:42 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:54 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 12:29 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 15:05 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:24 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 15:32 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:55 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 17:15 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 15:40 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 08:55 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 08:31 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 10:41 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 09:10 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 11:27 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 11:04 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-12 18:26 +0000
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 13:28 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 12:49 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 15:35 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 14:58 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 16:18 -0700
                :=4 noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 16:58 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 15:57 -0700
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 05:32 -0400
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-11 15:13 +0000
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:47 -0500
                Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-11 15:04 +0000
                ratio, aspect noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 12:23 -0700
    Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-07-31 20:35 -0500
      Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-07-31 19:00 -0700
        Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-01 05:25 -0700
          Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-01 21:02 +0000
            Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 06:50 -0400
          Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-01 14:05 -0700
            Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Enomis Skating <anomis.edenomis@libero.it> - 2015-08-02 02:28 -0700
              zene o'Ben noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 14:14 -0700
            Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 17:01 -0500
            Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-01 22:48 +0000
              Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Enomis Skating <anomis.edenomis@libero.it> - 2015-08-02 02:21 -0700
          Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 16:57 -0500
          Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 16:59 -0500
        Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 16:44 -0500

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