Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design?

From	Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design?
Date	2015-06-02 14:27 -0400
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<mkksiq$ian$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	<mkjo13$ln0$1@dont-email.me>

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On 02/06/2015 4:05 AM, rickman wrote:
 >
 > To me, when I should be able to do analysis to determine limitations and
 > feasibility, it just seems silly to spend time on building and testing
 > only to find things don't work.  I know I would never try to use timing
 > loops to generate video signals.  I think a simple analysis would show
 > the lack of stability.  Timing data is just so basic to the definition
 > of a digital device that I can't see any reason to not want to use it to
 > save days or weeks of development and testing that might well prove
 > fruitless.
 >
 > Is it typical in the Forth community to code things up rather than to
 > think them through?
 >

I spent a lot of time in the 90's in Asian software development shops 
and learned a lot about software design by watching a different 
approach. They did two things that changed how I wrote software.

1) They relied heavily on self contained modules with very clear 
interfaces to them so they could be swapped out and replaced with other 
code. This was important because the very fixed clean software interface 
reduces the number of series terms in the overall application reliability.

2) They had software budgets for each module. Ram, Rom and execution 
time. In general they quit tinkering when the budget was met, and often 
the budget came from an implementation prototype. Rather than  draconian 
negotiations for a software software budget, they were often developed 
by the same person who would ultimately be responsible for the final 
implementation.

The budget and complete application map predicted, part specs that could 
be used for an application. Not surprisingly they were able to design in 
parts with less capability than competitive approaches.

Overall design and implementation time generally a little less than most 
alternative approaches. Lots of group meetings early on but few during 
the implementation phase which tended to be shorter. Implementation 
language was not a big factor.

w..

Thread

Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 04:05 -0400
  Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 09:52 -0700
  Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 09:55 -0700
    Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-06-02 10:09 -0700
  Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-06-02 10:01 -0700
  Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-06-02 07:36 -1000
    Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? djc <ciesinger@gmx.net> - 2015-06-05 02:50 -0700
      Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-06-05 11:32 +0000
        Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? djc <ciesinger@gmx.net> - 2015-06-05 05:01 -0700
          Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 17:04 -0400
        Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-07 23:12 -0700
          Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-06-08 09:48 +0000
      Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-07 20:59 -0700
        Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? djc <ciesinger@gmx.net> - 2015-06-10 05:59 -0700
          Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-10 09:05 -0700
            Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-10 09:28 -0700
              Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-10 10:51 -0700
                Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-10 14:17 -0400
                Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-10 20:20 +0200
                Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-10 15:03 -0400
                Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-10 22:06 +0200
                Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-10 19:13 -0400
                Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-11 02:59 +0200
                Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-10 21:41 -0700
                Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? djc <ciesinger@gmx.net> - 2015-06-11 00:40 -0700
                Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-11 01:24 -0700
                Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-11 05:33 -0400
            Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-10 10:37 -0700
              Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-11 00:17 -0700
            Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-10 18:13 +0000
  Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-06-02 14:21 -0400
  Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-06-02 14:27 -0400
  Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? Bob <bob@none.com> - 2015-06-02 16:04 -0400
  Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-03 05:17 +0000
  Re: Is Forth About Tinkering Rather than Design? "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-06-03 03:07 -0400

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