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| From | Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: "Death To C" |
| Date | 2015-05-04 21:36 -0500 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <mi99vs$7bf$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | <mi8hvq$p37$1@dont-email.me> <1d3d39e1-3907-4222-9369-154784461fbd@googlegroups.com> <20150504224134.0e897c71@maxa-pc> <gq6gkapsgtcnsrmulg96q7nvd1v919i5u6@4ax.com> |
Robert Wessel wrote: > On Mon, 4 May 2015 22:41:34 +0200, Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, 4 May 2015 13:22:02 -0700 (PDT) >> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> wrote: >> >>> On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 8:41:55 PM UTC+1, Lynn McGuire wrote: >>>> "Death To C" >>>> http://techcrunch.com/2015/05/02/and-c-plus-plus-too/ >>>> >>>> "Ladies and gentlemen, the C programming language. It's a classic. >>>> It is sleek, and spartan, and elegant. (Especially compared to its >>>> sequel, that bloated mess C++, which shares all the faults I'm >>>> about to describe.) It is blindingly, quicksilver fast, because >>>> it's about as close to the bone of the machine as you can get. It >>>> is time- tested and ubiquitous. And it is terrifyingly dangerous." >>>> >>>> So what else is new? >>>> >>> The main problem is buffer overruns. More rarely you can also >>> have dangling or alisased pointers. But no-one has come up with >>> a nice fix. >> >> There is no nice fix. >> >> It's easy enough to implement safe arrays in another >>> language, but they you lose the speed of raw writes to memory. >> >> It's easy enough to bounds check but who does it? > > > No it's really not. C makes thorough bounds checking almost > impossible. You *can* check named (static/automatic) and allocated > objects as a whole fairly easily (although with fairly high overhead, > usually with some sort of fat pointer scheme), doing that within > objects is nearly, if not actually, impossible while maintaining full > C semantics. > For what it is worth, I have dealt with bounds checking efficiently and with not a lot of trouble - in 'C' - for a few decades now. It wasn't automatic, but it wasn't hard. It cetraibnly wasn't "high overhead". No fat pointer scheme needed. The key is the locality of the information needed to completely check the bounds in a succinct and frugal manner. 1) Write out your invariants. 2) Find and bind to the data or declaration objects that specify your invariants. 3) Enforce the invariants, one by one. Explicitly. -- Les Cargill
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"Death To C" Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2015-05-04 14:41 -0500
Re: "Death To C" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-05-04 22:16 +0200
Re: "Death To C" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-05-04 13:26 -0700
Re: "Death To C" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-05-04 22:51 +0200
Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-04 22:02 +0100
Re: "Death To C" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-05-05 00:06 +0200
Re: "Death To C" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-05-04 13:22 -0700
Re: "Death To C" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-05-04 22:41 +0200
Re: "Death To C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-04 20:25 -0500
Bounds checking in C (Was: "Death To C") gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-05-05 02:15 +0000
Re: Bounds checking in C (Was: "Death To C") BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-06 10:23 -0500
Re: "Death To C" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-04 21:36 -0500
Re: "Death To C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-05 01:01 -0500
Re: "Death To C" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-05 12:23 -0500
Re: "Death To C" CHIN Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2015-05-05 03:06 -0700
Re: "Death To C" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-05 17:43 +1200
Re: "Death To C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-05 01:00 -0500
Re: "Death To C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-05 01:13 -0500
Re: "Death To C" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-05 19:15 +1200
Re: "Death To C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-05 02:41 -0500
Re: "Death To C" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-05 20:12 +1200
Re: "Death To C" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-05 06:48 +0000
Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-05 10:57 +0100
Re: "Death To C" asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-05-05 16:53 -0700
Re: "Death To C" Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2015-05-06 08:10 +0100
Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-06 09:53 +0100
Re: "Death To C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-06 13:49 +0100
Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-06 14:29 +0100
Re: "Death To C" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-05-06 09:43 -0700
Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-06 18:24 +0100
Re: "Death To C" asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-05-08 00:44 -0700
Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-08 13:49 +0100
Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-04 22:15 +0100
Re: "Death To C" BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-08 09:09 -0500
Re: "Death To C" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-05-04 16:18 -0500
Re: "Death To C" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-05 12:49 +1200
Re: "Death To C" raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-05-08 21:52 +0000
Re: "Death To C" Merikissa <merikissa@no.spam.net> - 2015-05-10 04:04 +0300
Re: "Death To C" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-05-13 08:11 -0700
Re: "Death To C" David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-13 10:00 -0700
Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-13 18:20 +0100
Re: "Death To C" David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 10:47 -0700
Re: "Death To C" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 11:09 -0700
Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-15 19:21 +0100
Re: "Death To C" David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 09:10 -0700
Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-16 20:45 +0100
Re: "Death To C" David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-17 09:38 -0700
Re: "Death To C" raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-05-17 10:47 +0000
Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-17 12:20 +0100
Re: "Death To C" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-05-13 10:24 -0700
Re: "Death To C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-13 22:01 +0200
Re: "Death To C" Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2015-05-14 07:48 +0100
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