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Re: "Death To C"

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Robert Wessel wrote:
> On Tue, 05 May 2015 01:00:48 -0500, Robert Wessel
> <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 May 2015 17:43:39 +1200, Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Robert Wessel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No it's really not.  C makes thorough bounds checking almost
>>>> impossible.  You *can* check named (static/automatic) and allocated
>>>> objects as a whole fairly easily (although with fairly high overhead,
>>>> usually with some sort of fat pointer scheme), doing that within
>>>> objects is nearly, if not actually, impossible while maintaining full
>>>> C semantics.
>>>
>>> Well...
>>>
>>> The one time (an avionics project) I did have to implement bounds
>>> checking (for allocated memory), I used the hardware MMU and gave each
>>> allocation it's own page.  I don't think I broke an C semantics.
>>
>>
>> Yes, that's easy.  Much harder is:
>>
>>   struct s {char s[8]; void (*fp)();} s1;
>>   strcpy(s1.s, "abcdefghihjk");
>>
>> Preventing the above from overwriting the function pointer in the
>> general case, where the reference to s1.s may undergo all sorts of
>> mangling before actually being passed to the strcpy.
>>
>> Again, it's *within* an object that C makes bounds checking very
>> difficult.
>>
>> And allocating a guard page on either side of each allocation is only
>> a partial check (you can still "overflow" more than a page, and the
>> end of the allocated object is not well defined), overall probably a
>> bit less effective than sentinels, but only a bit.
>
>
> A more direct example of the difficulty:
>
>    struct s {char s[8]; char t[8]; void (*fp)();} s1;
>    void *vp = &s1;
>    char *cp = vp;
>    cp += offsetof(s, t);
>    strcpy(cp, "abcdefghihjk");
>
> How do you prevent the strcpy from overlaying the function pointer?
> Assume that these five lines are wildly separated.

You can't...

These are the sorts of examples where an idiomatic C++ solution can lead 
to much safer code, often where the only overhead is in the bounds checking.

-- 
Ian Collins

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"Death To C" Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2015-05-04 14:41 -0500
  Re: "Death To C" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-05-04 22:16 +0200
    Re: "Death To C" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-05-04 13:26 -0700
      Re: "Death To C" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-05-04 22:51 +0200
      Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-04 22:02 +0100
        Re: "Death To C" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-05-05 00:06 +0200
  Re: "Death To C" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-05-04 13:22 -0700
    Re: "Death To C" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-05-04 22:41 +0200
      Re: "Death To C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-04 20:25 -0500
        Bounds checking in C (Was: "Death To C") gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-05-05 02:15 +0000
          Re: Bounds checking in C (Was: "Death To C") BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-06 10:23 -0500
        Re: "Death To C" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-04 21:36 -0500
          Re: "Death To C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-05 01:01 -0500
            Re: "Death To C" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-05-05 12:23 -0500
          Re: "Death To C" CHIN Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2015-05-05 03:06 -0700
        Re: "Death To C" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-05 17:43 +1200
          Re: "Death To C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-05 01:00 -0500
            Re: "Death To C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-05 01:13 -0500
              Re: "Death To C" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-05 19:15 +1200
                Re: "Death To C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-05 02:41 -0500
                Re: "Death To C" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-05 20:12 +1200
        Re: "Death To C" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-05-05 06:48 +0000
        Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-05 10:57 +0100
          Re: "Death To C" asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-05-05 16:53 -0700
          Re: "Death To C" Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2015-05-06 08:10 +0100
            Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-06 09:53 +0100
              Re: "Death To C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-05-06 13:49 +0100
                Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-06 14:29 +0100
                Re: "Death To C" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-05-06 09:43 -0700
                Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-06 18:24 +0100
          Re: "Death To C" asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-05-08 00:44 -0700
            Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-08 13:49 +0100
    Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-04 22:15 +0100
      Re: "Death To C" BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-08 09:09 -0500
    Re: "Death To C" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-05-04 16:18 -0500
    Re: "Death To C" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-05-05 12:49 +1200
  Re: "Death To C" raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-05-08 21:52 +0000
  Re: "Death To C" Merikissa <merikissa@no.spam.net> - 2015-05-10 04:04 +0300
  Re: "Death To C" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-05-13 08:11 -0700
    Re: "Death To C" David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-13 10:00 -0700
      Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-13 18:20 +0100
        Re: "Death To C" David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 10:47 -0700
          Re: "Death To C" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 11:09 -0700
          Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-15 19:21 +0100
            Re: "Death To C" David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 09:10 -0700
              Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-16 20:45 +0100
                Re: "Death To C" David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-05-17 09:38 -0700
        Re: "Death To C" raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-05-17 10:47 +0000
          Re: "Death To C" Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-05-17 12:20 +0100
      Re: "Death To C" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-05-13 10:24 -0700
        Re: "Death To C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-05-13 22:01 +0200
    Re: "Death To C" Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2015-05-14 07:48 +0100

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