Re: New directions in C

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: New directions in C
Date	2015-04-08 16:50 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<mg3f5t$vb2$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(17 earlier) <e895acc1-1a60-4327-863e-d1d643b704ec@googlegroups.com> <mg36u1$tmg$1@dont-email.me> <a6e24fec-3c85-4f89-aa6f-be83659312c8@googlegroups.com> <mg39vf$9oi$1@dont-email.me> <e062b3aa-ca53-4479-867d-bc20fafb57e4@googlegroups.com>

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On 08/04/15 15:44, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 2:21:50 PM UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>>
>>> Embedded programmers often represent 
>>> real values with fixed point /scaled integers - it's a point worth making, but 
>>> hardly  a revelation.
>>
>> It completely contradicts what you have been saying, making it a
>> revelation to you (though not to anyone who actually does embedded
>> programming).
>>
> No it doesn't.
> I said most data is real, most integers are used to count things in memory, and
> that embedded systems typically don't deal with much data.

Yes, that's what you said.  And you were wrong.  If you /still/ don't
understand that, then this thread is at an end - there is no point in
continuing beyond this post.  Ignorance is curable by knowledge, but
wilful, stubborn stupidity is much harder to fix.

We have now established that /data/ comes in to a computer system as
integers, even if it is created by measuring a real, continuous,
analogue object.  The data is integer or discrete, not real (either in
the sense of being a real number, or floating point, or a real object).

Integers are used for all sorts of things - counting things in memory is
just one usage.  In the case of small embedded systems programming,
integers (of different types) are used for almost everything, and
"counting things in memory" is a tiny proportion of usage.  And note
that embedded systems programming is a major usage of C in modern
programming - unlike most areas, it has not been replaced by newer
alternative languages (C++ is seeing increasing use in embedded
programming - but the arguments here apply equally to C++).

Embedded systems deal with lots of data - far more than first appears to
people who have never worked with them.  In some cases, there can be
lots of different types of data passing through the embedded systems,
and in other cases there can be streams of similar data.  Either way,
they often deal with lots of data.

> Of course we can't have true analogue values in a digital computer. Floating
> point numbers are to the mathematician rationals (except for infinity / NaN).

No - when you actually need to deal with rationals (which is rare except
in highly mathematical programs), you use rationals.  Floating point
numbers are convenient approximations to real numbers, not rationals.

> Fixed point / scaled integers are also rationals, but with the fractional part
> handled explicitly by the programmer. But everyone on this NG knows that
> computers are digital technology.
> It was worth pointing out that in the embedded world you often represent 
> measurements of underlying real values with scaled integers / fixed point. 

The data comes into the system as integers, and is (for the most part)
stored and/or manipulated as integers.  The data is not a "rational",
and does not typically have a "fractional part" (fixed-point types being
much less common than integers).

But you have (apparently) finally understood that data is a
representation of a measurement, rather than the "real thing".

>>
>>> Whilst the microprocessor doesn't understand what the data represents, the 
>>> programmer needs to.
>>
>> Yes - but embedded programmers have developed techniques such as naming
>> variables, using types, comments, and documentation as a way of handling
>> this complexity.  It means we don't have to turn everything into
>> floating point and assume it is all scaled as 0 .. 1.0.
>>
> Of course you can put human systems in place to handle inherently tricky
> situations. I'm not opposed to that. In fact I'm frequently sceptical about automatic
> processes that aim to reduce bugs by making the human processes unnecessary.

"Putting human systems in place to handle inherently tricky situations"
is also known as "programming".  My point is that you don't have to use
SI units or floating point for most embedded programming work - you
simply have to be able to do your job.

> 
> if a number is measured in units than usually the units are human-defined and
> arbitrary, but that's not always true. Often values are inherently in the range 0-1.0,
> and it's a lot easier if the language allows them to be represented directly.
> 

If you have difficulty with the idea of using 0 .. 0xffff (or whatever
is appropriate) as a representation of 0 - 1.0, then you should not be
working as an embedded programmer.

Thread

New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-14 23:05 +0100
  Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-15 13:08 +1300
    Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 14:49 +0100
    Re: New directions in C Anand Hariharan <mailto.anand.hariharan@gmail.com> - 2015-04-07 10:03 -0700
  Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 01:36 -0700
    Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 02:07 -0700
      Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 11:10 +0100
        Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-16 10:36 +0000
          Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 11:43 +0100
            Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-16 11:01 +0000
              Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 13:11 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-16 12:51 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 06:11 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-16 13:37 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-03-16 13:44 +0000
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 15:23 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-03-16 15:07 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 10:24 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-03-16 19:36 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 16:19 -0700
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-16 15:51 +0000
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 20:41 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 15:23 +0100
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 15:34 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 15:37 +0100
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 15:48 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 15:52 +0100
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 16:05 +0100
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-17 18:58 +0000
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 12:15 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 12:31 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-17 16:13 +0000
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 09:50 -0700
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 17:59 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-03-17 17:16 +0000
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 18:24 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-03-17 17:46 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-17 18:02 +0000
                Re: New directions in C glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-03-17 18:58 +0000
                Re: New directions in C fmassei@gmail.com - 2015-03-17 13:04 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-18 01:17 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-03-18 14:58 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-03-17 11:38 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-03-17 22:59 -0400
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2015-03-18 09:05 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-03-18 08:56 -0400
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-03-18 10:27 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-03-17 09:35 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 17:44 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-18 01:11 -0700
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-21 22:14 +0000
              Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 05:24 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:50 +1300
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 07:21 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-17 01:50 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-18 21:22 +1300
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-18 01:55 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-18 22:08 +1300
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-18 07:01 -0700
              Re: New directions in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-03-16 08:27 -0400
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 13:31 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-16 09:47 -0500
                Re: New directions in C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-03-16 17:16 +0000
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-21 22:15 +0000
                Re: New directions in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-03-23 12:41 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-23 10:20 -0700
          Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-03-16 12:54 +0100
            Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-03-16 09:30 -0700
              Re: New directions in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-03-16 13:14 -0400
              Jacob (Was: New directions in C) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-03-16 18:07 +0000
          Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 15:27 +0100
            Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-03-16 16:26 +0100
              Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 10:09 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-03-16 11:14 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-03-17 13:42 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 14:59 +0100
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 15:27 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 15:34 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-17 16:18 +0000
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-21 22:35 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-22 01:23 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-22 11:00 +0000
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-29 16:56 +0000
                Re: New directions in C asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-03-29 10:04 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-29 10:56 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 19:30 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-29 12:25 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 20:46 +0100
                Re: New directions in C glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-03-29 21:46 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-03-30 07:43 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-07 00:33 +0200
                Re: New directions in C glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-06 23:13 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-07 15:46 +1200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-07 01:37 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-07 21:08 +1200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-07 02:52 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-07 11:09 +0100
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-07 13:18 +0200
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-07 13:03 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-07 06:16 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-07 16:18 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-07 07:37 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-07 23:31 +0200
                Re: New directions in C glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-18 00:45 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-07 22:40 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-08 16:57 +1200
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 09:14 +0200
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 14:14 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 01:52 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-08 21:36 +1200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 02:51 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-08 22:23 +1200
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 13:14 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 04:27 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 14:29 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 06:01 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 15:21 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 06:44 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 16:50 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 08:19 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 10:55 -0700
                Re: New directions in C asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-04-08 22:27 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-08 11:13 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 21:27 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-08 13:12 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-09 09:34 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-09 00:59 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-09 12:31 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-09 08:41 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-08 22:48 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-08 19:03 -0500
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-09 10:01 +0200
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-09 09:50 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-09 01:18 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 12:32 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-08 08:49 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 06:15 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-10 23:18 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-10 23:50 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-11 15:02 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-11 06:44 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-12 16:53 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-11 10:01 -0500
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-11 09:23 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-11 13:53 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-12 02:08 -0500
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-12 03:02 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-12 17:07 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-13 01:59 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-13 08:13 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-13 06:50 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-15 09:12 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 07:33 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-16 22:03 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 04:00 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-18 17:26 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 09:46 -0700
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 14:38 +0000
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 14:16 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-11 11:57 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-08 08:36 -0400
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 15:01 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-07 04:58 -0500
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-07 11:16 +0100
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-07 13:30 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-07 12:03 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-07 11:32 -0500
                Re: New directions in C glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-07 17:12 +0000
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2015-03-29 19:41 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-03-29 18:21 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-29 21:29 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-29 14:26 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-03-29 19:10 -0500
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-30 09:48 +0000
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2015-03-30 13:14 +0200
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-06 12:39 +0000
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 10:53 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Michael Angelo Ravera <maravera@prodigy.net> - 2015-04-09 18:17 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 01:08 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 17:44 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-10 02:06 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-10 10:21 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-10 10:31 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-10 11:26 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-10 11:53 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-10 12:22 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-10 12:46 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-10 13:46 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-10 13:51 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 18:54 +0000
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 13:11 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 14:10 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 17:46 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-11 23:38 +0100
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 16:35 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 17:19 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-12 00:54 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-12 01:29 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 17:32 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 23:33 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2015-04-10 09:23 -0300
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-10 13:31 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-10 13:29 -0500
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 12:12 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-10 13:46 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-10 18:30 -0500
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-11 12:21 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-12 01:01 -0500
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-12 13:03 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-12 23:29 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-12 18:54 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-13 00:52 -0500
                Re: New directions in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-13 08:39 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-14 02:44 -0500
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 15:02 +0100
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 15:07 +0100
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-03-17 16:09 +0100
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-21 22:19 +0000
            Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-16 18:05 +0000
          Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-17 15:55 +1300
            Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-17 08:48 +0000
              Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-17 03:01 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-17 10:32 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-18 01:32 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-18 21:33 +1300
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-18 08:55 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-18 22:13 +1300
              Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-18 21:31 +1300
        Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 09:35 -0700
        Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 09:49 -0700
  Re: New directions in C Lőrinczy Zsigmond <zsiga@nospam.for.me> - 2015-03-16 10:07 +0100
    Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 10:51 +0100
      Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-16 10:25 +0000
        Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-16 11:32 +0000
          Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-03-16 13:06 +0100
            Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 05:35 -0700
          Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-16 13:46 +0000
          Re: New directions in C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-03-16 17:07 +0000
            Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 10:19 -0700
              Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:37 +1300
        Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 05:42 -0700
    Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-16 10:55 +0000
    Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 09:41 -0700
  Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 08:29 -0700

csiph-web