Re: New directions in C

From	Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: New directions in C
Date	2015-04-11 23:33 +0000
Organization	Friends of the Galactic Collective
Message-ID	<DKGWbi.Di2.WxZUh@gmail.com> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <mg88eu$5pt$1@dont-email.me> <mg8a1d$b3u$1@dont-email.me> <mg8bna$h09$1@dont-email.me> <NfUvSn.QL5.GQ7VD@gmail.com> <mgc7ni$h8s$1@dont-email.me>

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On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 11:38:28PM +0100, Bartc wrote:
> On 10/04/2015 19:54, Steve Thompson wrote:
> >On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:22:05PM +0100, Bartc wrote:
> 
> >>My example wasn't about defaults either, but if defaults were used, and
> >>they happened to be (640,480) or you made it that way because it's in
> >>one of your libraries, then you could actually write:
> >>
> >>  initwindow();
> >>
> >>and get the default size.
> >
> >Christ.  That's what descriptors are for.
> >
> >How about initwindow(params), where params is a structure pointer
> >describing the window parameters.  One of the things about wimp
> >interfaces is that there are generally a zillion little things to
> >set or tune.  I would go mad if I was required to use functions
> >expecting tens of function arguments, which is why in my own code I
> >have settled on a parameters structure containing all of the flags and
> >whatnot required to set up the module instance.  My avl tree module
> >has the following parameters structure:
> 
> Nothing stops you doing that. And no-one is holding a gun to your head 
> saying you /must/ use keyword params.

A good thing too, or I might have to jujitsu/kung-fu/karate the
offending firearm and then use it on the perpetrators lower
extremities.

> I've used keyword params in a dynamic language where /one/ param might 
> be a 'dict' type containing the multitudinous options, and where you 
> could override one of those options without affecting the default set.
> 
> For use in C, there /already/ exist functions with a dozen or more 
> parameters (I'm only familiar with Win32); this scheme can be 
> superimposed on such functions.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of such usage.  My position is
merely that it does not have to be that way, and that descriptors
represent an efficient solution.  I'm not rabidly passionate about my
choice, and I was mainly influenced by the SCSI protocol.  I have
decided to use the scheme I propose as a standard interface in my own
code, and so far it is working out well in every instance I have used
it.

> But, given a function drawimage() which:
> 
> * Draws an image I
> * Into window W (default: screen)
> * At W position X,Y (default: top left or centred)
> * At scale SX,SY or at single fixed aspect scale SX (default: 1.0, 1.0)
> * Start position in I: IX,IY (default top left)
> * Size of I to draw: (W,H) (default: entire image)
> * Plus a dozen other options etc etc
> 
> then /I/ would go mad if I had to painstakingly fill in a form - sorry a 
> struct - just before every call!

Well, you don't actually have to do that.  If you were using my scheme
you'd only have something like the following:

img_desc i;

...

imagedesc_init(win, &i);
i.bm = image;
i.scalex = 0.5;
i.scaley = 0.5;
drawimage(&i);

or some sensible variation appropriate to your API's capabilities.

> Most of the time you just want to do:
> 
>   drawimage(I);         // centred on screen
>   drawimage(W,I);       // top left in W
> 
> and sometimes:
> 
>   drawimage(W,I,scale:2) // double size

Which can in fact be supported with macros.

> >Now consider the notion of functions with default arguments in this
> >scenario.  First you must define the function such that it will accept
> >all of the above structure elements individually AND you require that
> 
> That would be silly. You wouldn't define /dozens/ of parameters like that.

But a dozen function parameters is ok?

> I suppose the compiler can define a structure for you and
> >hide the details of its allocation and initialization to avoid the
> >cost of pushing each individual function argument on the stack, but so
> >what.  It is still ugly.
> 
> What's the cost of writing arguments to a struct in memory? And the 
> caller having to access those via a pointer? (And with some platforms, 
> many arguments are passed via registers; that is awkward when using 
> structs.)

Pretty much the same cost as writing them to the stack, but as your
function parameters will often be associated with variables on the
stack anyhow, your function call requires a second copy of each.  This
may be acceptable if you are paranoid, but otherwise it will use twice
as much stack.  If I am not mistaken, typical ABIs reserve a small
number of registers for passing function parameters and put everything
in excess on the stack.  x86-64 reserves five GP registers for
function parameters, but x86-32 uses none.  Arm reserves four.

> Anyway for many of these kinds of functions (CreateWindowEx for 
> example), they are not going to be called millions of times per second.

That is true.  However, looking at a function call does not necessarily
tell you what the parameters signify, particularly if they are
constants.  With a structure where elements are assigned it is
immediately obvious what is being done, all things being equal.

> >Furthermore, I suspect your default function arguments will be be
> >program wide for any given module,
> 
> Most defaults are going to be NULL or zero, no matter what the module. 
> Even if not zero, functions can often use zero to signal that a more 
> elaborate default is being requested (for example, which depends on the 
> value of other arguments, which is harder to express directly).

It depends.  If there are a bunch of flags your rule may not be true.  

>  rather than specific to a module
> >instance, which limits their utility considerably.  So while I am not
> >exactly pleased to find myself in agreement with Mr. Heathfield, I
> >must say that this suggestion is a Bad Idea.  The general technique
> >as illustrated above is more than adequate to obviate the need for
> >functions with more than two or three arguments, and that is a 'win'.
> 
> I use that technique too. In fact I've demonstrated that above, where 
> both I and W are likely to be handles (pointers in C) to the relevant 
> descriptors.
> 
> Perhaps you're misunderstanding how keyword params and defaults are 
> likely to be used. It will not be used so that I and W can be expanded 
> into their 28 and 46 respective elements to create a new set of 
> functions that start with 74 parameters plus all the rest!

I don't think I am misunderstanding; I simply don't see the sense in
it.  Your approach is similar to the GCC extension that allows partial
structure initialization by naming the elements as they appear in the
static initializer.  I don't think that is terribly helpful either,
but it seems more useful than what you appear to be proposing.

I will revisit some of your earlier arguments and see if I have missed
anything important.

Regards,

Steve Thompson

-- 
"If I had a nickel for every time some idiot called me about a
computer problem that turned out to be user error, I would be able to
retire and spend the rest of my days cultivating clues in my backyard
hillside garden."  -- MysteryDog in 24hoursupport.helpdesk.

Thread

New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-14 23:05 +0100
  Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-15 13:08 +1300
    Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 14:49 +0100
    Re: New directions in C Anand Hariharan <mailto.anand.hariharan@gmail.com> - 2015-04-07 10:03 -0700
  Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 01:36 -0700
    Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 02:07 -0700
      Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 11:10 +0100
        Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-16 10:36 +0000
          Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 11:43 +0100
            Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-16 11:01 +0000
              Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 13:11 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-16 12:51 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 06:11 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-16 13:37 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-03-16 13:44 +0000
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 15:23 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-03-16 15:07 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 10:24 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-03-16 19:36 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 16:19 -0700
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-16 15:51 +0000
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 20:41 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 15:23 +0100
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 15:34 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 15:37 +0100
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 15:48 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 15:52 +0100
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 16:05 +0100
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-17 18:58 +0000
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 12:15 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 12:31 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-17 16:13 +0000
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 09:50 -0700
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 17:59 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-03-17 17:16 +0000
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 18:24 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-03-17 17:46 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-17 18:02 +0000
                Re: New directions in C glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-03-17 18:58 +0000
                Re: New directions in C fmassei@gmail.com - 2015-03-17 13:04 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-18 01:17 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-03-18 14:58 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-03-17 11:38 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-03-17 22:59 -0400
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2015-03-18 09:05 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-03-18 08:56 -0400
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-03-18 10:27 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-03-17 09:35 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 17:44 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-18 01:11 -0700
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-21 22:14 +0000
              Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 05:24 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:50 +1300
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 07:21 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-17 01:50 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-18 21:22 +1300
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-18 01:55 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-18 22:08 +1300
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-18 07:01 -0700
              Re: New directions in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-03-16 08:27 -0400
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 13:31 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-16 09:47 -0500
                Re: New directions in C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-03-16 17:16 +0000
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-21 22:15 +0000
                Re: New directions in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-03-23 12:41 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-23 10:20 -0700
          Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-03-16 12:54 +0100
            Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-03-16 09:30 -0700
              Re: New directions in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-03-16 13:14 -0400
              Jacob (Was: New directions in C) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-03-16 18:07 +0000
          Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 15:27 +0100
            Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-03-16 16:26 +0100
              Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 10:09 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-03-16 11:14 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-03-17 13:42 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 14:59 +0100
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 15:27 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 15:34 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-17 16:18 +0000
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-21 22:35 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-22 01:23 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-22 11:00 +0000
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-29 16:56 +0000
                Re: New directions in C asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-03-29 10:04 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-29 10:56 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 19:30 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-29 12:25 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 20:46 +0100
                Re: New directions in C glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-03-29 21:46 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-03-30 07:43 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-07 00:33 +0200
                Re: New directions in C glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-06 23:13 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-07 15:46 +1200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-07 01:37 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-07 21:08 +1200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-07 02:52 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-07 11:09 +0100
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-07 13:18 +0200
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-07 13:03 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-07 06:16 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-07 16:18 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-07 07:37 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-07 23:31 +0200
                Re: New directions in C glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-18 00:45 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-07 22:40 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-08 16:57 +1200
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 09:14 +0200
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 14:14 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 01:52 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-08 21:36 +1200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 02:51 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-08 22:23 +1200
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 13:14 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 04:27 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 14:29 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 06:01 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 15:21 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 06:44 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 16:50 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 08:19 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 10:55 -0700
                Re: New directions in C asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-04-08 22:27 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-08 11:13 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 21:27 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-08 13:12 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-09 09:34 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-09 00:59 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-09 12:31 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-09 08:41 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-08 22:48 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-08 19:03 -0500
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-09 10:01 +0200
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-09 09:50 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-09 01:18 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 12:32 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-08 08:49 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-08 06:15 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-10 23:18 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-10 23:50 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-11 15:02 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-11 06:44 -0700
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-12 16:53 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-11 10:01 -0500
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-11 09:23 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-11 13:53 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-12 02:08 -0500
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-12 03:02 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-12 17:07 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-13 01:59 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-13 08:13 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-13 06:50 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-15 09:12 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 07:33 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-16 22:03 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 04:00 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-18 17:26 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 09:46 -0700
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 14:38 +0000
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 14:16 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-11 11:57 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-08 08:36 -0400
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-08 15:01 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-07 04:58 -0500
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-07 11:16 +0100
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-07 13:30 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-07 12:03 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-07 11:32 -0500
                Re: New directions in C glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-07 17:12 +0000
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2015-03-29 19:41 +0200
                Re: New directions in C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-03-29 18:21 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-29 21:29 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-29 14:26 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-03-29 19:10 -0500
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-30 09:48 +0000
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2015-03-30 13:14 +0200
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-06 12:39 +0000
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 10:53 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Michael Angelo Ravera <maravera@prodigy.net> - 2015-04-09 18:17 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 01:08 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 17:44 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-10 02:06 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-10 10:21 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-10 10:31 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-10 11:26 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-10 11:53 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-10 12:22 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-10 12:46 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-10 13:46 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-10 13:51 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 18:54 +0000
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 13:11 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 14:10 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 17:46 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-11 23:38 +0100
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 16:35 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 17:19 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-12 00:54 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-12 01:29 -0700
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 17:32 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-04-11 23:33 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2015-04-10 09:23 -0300
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-10 13:31 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-10 13:29 -0500
                Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 12:12 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-10 13:46 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-10 18:30 -0500
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-11 12:21 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-12 01:01 -0500
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-12 13:03 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-12 23:29 +0100
                Re: New directions in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-12 18:54 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-13 00:52 -0500
                Re: New directions in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-13 08:39 -0400
                Re: New directions in C Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-14 02:44 -0500
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 15:02 +0100
                Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-17 15:07 +0100
                Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-03-17 16:09 +0100
                Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-21 22:19 +0000
            Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-16 18:05 +0000
          Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-17 15:55 +1300
            Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-17 08:48 +0000
              Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-17 03:01 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-17 10:32 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-18 01:32 -0700
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-18 21:33 +1300
                Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-18 08:55 +0000
                Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-18 22:13 +1300
              Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-18 21:31 +1300
        Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 09:35 -0700
        Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 09:49 -0700
  Re: New directions in C Lőrinczy Zsigmond <zsiga@nospam.for.me> - 2015-03-16 10:07 +0100
    Re: New directions in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2015-03-16 10:51 +0100
      Re: New directions in C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-03-16 10:25 +0000
        Re: New directions in C Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-16 11:32 +0000
          Re: New directions in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-03-16 13:06 +0100
            Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 05:35 -0700
          Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-16 13:46 +0000
          Re: New directions in C Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-03-16 17:07 +0000
            Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 10:19 -0700
              Re: New directions in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:37 +1300
        Re: New directions in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-03-16 05:42 -0700
    Re: New directions in C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-03-16 10:55 +0000
    Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 09:41 -0700
  Re: New directions in C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 08:29 -0700

csiph-web