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Re: (test) ? a:b

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Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> writes:

> I suspect that Guido and the core developers disagree with you, since
> they had the opportunity to fix that in Python 3 and didn't.

That doesn't follow; there are numerous warts in Python 2 that were not
fixed in Python 3. As I understand it, the preservation of bool–int
equality has more to do with preserving backward compatibility.

I agree with the decision, because this isn't an issue which often leads
to *incorrect* code. But I maintain that it's an unfortunate and
needlessly confusing wart of the language.

> One example of where treating True and False as 1 and 0 is useful is
> that it makes counting operations very simple, e.g. counting the
> number of blank lines:
>
> sum(not line.strip() for line in lines)
> sum(1 if not line.strip() else 0 for line in lines)
> sum({'': 0}.get(line.strip(), 1) for line in lines)

These all look ludicrous and explain nothing about intent, to my
reading. The ‘bool’ type exists precisely because there is a concept to
be represented which is distinct from integers.

Using a sum on non-numeric values just cracks the abstraction open
needlessly. Once I figure out what is going on, I'm left wondering why
the coder chose something so obfuscatory to their intent.

This is short and clear and needs no leaking of the underlying bool
implementation::

    len(True for line in lines if line.strip())

> which I consider far less obvious than the straightforward summation
> of True values.

Why sum them at all? You aren't interested in them as numbers, you're
just asking how many objects meet a criterion. That calls not for ‘sum’,
but ‘len’. There's no need to rely on an underlying ‘int’ operation just
to count objects.

The fact that summing them gives the same answer as simply asking how
many there are, demonstrates that nothing is gained by peeking into the
implementation. The example I give above works exactly as well with no
‘int’ underlying the ‘bool’ type at all.

-- 
 \      “The way to build large Python applications is to componentize |
  `\             and loosely-couple the hell out of everything.” —Aahz |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney

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(test) ? a:b "ast" <nomail@invalid.com> - 2014-10-22 10:29 +0200
  Re: (test) ? a:b buscacio@gmail.com - 2014-10-22 02:05 -0700
    Re: (test) ? a:b "ast" <nomail@invalid.com> - 2014-10-22 11:14 +0200
      Re: (test) ? a:b Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-22 12:45 +0100
        Re: (test) ? a:b "ast" <nomail@invalid.com> - 2014-10-27 09:01 +0100
      Re: (test) ? a:b Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-10-22 11:16 -0600
        Re: (test) ? a:b Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-10-23 11:44 +1100
    Re: (test) ? a:b Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-22 20:15 +1100
    Re: (test) ? a:b Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-22 10:16 +0100
    Re: (test) ? a:b Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-22 20:27 +1100
      Re: (test) ? a:b Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-10-23 16:46 +1300
        Re: (test) ? a:b MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-10-23 11:12 +0100
          Re: (test) ? a:b "ast" <nomail@invalid.com> - 2014-10-24 08:38 +0200
        Re: (test) ? a:b Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 19:04 -0600
          Re: (test) ? a:b Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-10-27 22:04 +1300
        Re: (test) ? a:b Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:20 +1100
        Re: (test) ? a:b Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 21:05 -0600
    Re: (test) ? a:b Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-10-22 07:30 -0400
      Re: (test) ? a:b Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-10-22 14:41 +0300
      Re: (test) ? a:b Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-22 06:16 -0700
        Re: (test) ? a:b "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-10-22 19:08 +0100
          Re: (test) ? a:b Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-22 19:55 -0400
            Re: (test) ? a:b "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-10-23 11:50 +0100
              Re: (test) ? a:b Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-10-23 16:44 +0300
                Re: (test) ? a:b Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 08:24 -0600
                Re: (test) ? a:b Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-10-23 16:41 +0200
                Re: (test) ? a:b Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-10-23 19:20 +0300
                Re: (test) ? a:b Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-10-24 19:38 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 19:45 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-10-24 12:37 +0300
                Re: (test) ? a:b Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-10-25 00:07 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 12:22 -0600
                Re: (test) ? a:b Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-10-24 21:46 +0300
                Re: (test) ? a:b Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-10-24 10:20 -0700
                Re: (test) ? a:b alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-10-24 20:58 +0000
                Re: (test) ? a:b Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-10-25 00:02 +0300
                Re: (test) ? a:b Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-10-25 16:03 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 16:25 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-10-25 07:58 -0400
                Re: (test) ? a:b Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 07:53 -0600
                Re: (test) ? a:b Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-25 14:11 -0400
                Re: (test) ? a:b alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-10-25 19:49 +0000
                Re: (test) ? a:b Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-10-26 07:45 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-10-26 11:10 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-10-26 12:03 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-10-26 15:15 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 15:34 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-10-26 17:12 -0400
                Re: (test) ? a:b Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-10-27 11:38 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-10-27 01:40 +0000
                Re: (test) ? a:b Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 19:19 -0700
                Re: (test) ? a:b Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-10-26 12:10 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2014-10-27 01:55 +0000
                Re: (test) ? a:b Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-10-27 13:28 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 19:38 -0700
                Re: (test) ? a:b Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2014-10-27 02:43 +0000
                Re: (test) ? a:b Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-10-27 13:56 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 15:34 -0700
                Re: (test) ? a:b Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-10-26 10:53 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 11:01 +1100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-26 01:09 +0100
                Re: (test) ? a:b Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 11:13 +1100
          Re: (test) ? a:b Vito De Tullio <vito.detullio@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 06:55 +0200
      Re: (test) ? a:b Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-10-23 03:28 +1100
        Re: (test) ? a:b Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 03:40 +1100
        Re: (test) ? a:b alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-10-22 18:03 +0000
        Re: (test) ? a:b Matthew Ruffalo <mmr15@case.edu> - 2014-10-22 14:27 -0400
        Re: (test) ? a:b Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 05:30 +1100
        Re: (test) ? a:b Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-10-22 16:11 -0400
    Re: (test) ? a:b Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-10-22 12:41 +0100
      Re: (test) ? a:b alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-10-22 15:12 +0000
        Re: (test) ? a:b Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-23 02:18 +1100
          Re: (test) ? a:b alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-10-22 15:24 +0000
    Re: (test) ? a:b Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-10-22 09:09 -0700
  Re: (test) ? a:b Tobiah <toby@tobiah.org> - 2014-10-24 10:23 -0700
    Re: (test) ? a:b Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-10-25 04:27 +1100
      Re: (test) ? a:b Tobiah <toby@tobiah.org> - 2014-10-24 11:31 -0700

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