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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #34256
| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth, comp.sys.raspberry-pi |
| Subject | Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi |
| Date | 2014-10-28 14:09 -0400 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <m2om5b$pjm$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (10 earlier) <2YCdnVNUS67HpdLJnZ2dnUU7-XednZ2d@supernews.com> <m2nf16$9pi$1@dont-email.me> <G4qdndjs6Yjc39LJnZ2dnUU7-SGdnZ2d@supernews.com> <m2nhj5$gra$1@dont-email.me> <eZOdnWQJlO79zdLJnZ2dnUU7-eudnZ2d@supernews.com> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 10/28/2014 4:14 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > On 10/27/14 9:45 PM, rickman wrote: >> On 10/28/2014 3:14 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: >>> On 10/27/14 9:01 PM, rickman wrote: >>>> On 10/28/2014 2:31 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: >>>>> On 10/27/14 11:51 AM, rickman wrote: >>>>> .... >>>>>> >>>>>> Obviously I am terrible at explaining things as I never seem to be >>>>>> able >>>>>> to get people to understand what I am trying to do with this app. I >>>>>> find it very simple, but I must be leaving out important info. >>>>>> Let me >>>>>> try drawing an ASCII art picture... >>>>>> Test Fixture Forth App Terminal Emulator >>>>>> +--------+ +--------+ +---------+ >>>>>> | | RS232 | Forth | ??? | RS232 | >>>>>> | UUT |<=====>| User |<=====>| Data | >>>>>> | | | I/O | | Display | >>>>>> +--------+ +--------+ +---------+ >>>>>> >>>>>> The middle box is the Forth app with its own console I/O. The left >>>>>> box >>>>>> is a test fixture connected to the computer by RS-232. The user >>>>>> controls the app through the console I/O and when actually production >>>>>> testing boards test results are copied into the paste buffer by the >>>>>> program to be pasted into a spread sheet. >>>>> >>>>> Baffled by your concern. Native Forths have been doing this since the >>>>> 1970's, without OSs of any kind. Serial port drivers took (in the good >>>>> old days) about one block/sceen of code. Multiple tasks could manage >>>>> their own screens or ports. >>>>> >>>>> IMO introducing OSs into the picture is complicating the process, not >>>>> simplifying it. >>>> >>>> I'm baffled by your response. I'm not writing this from scratch. I >>>> have a working program that runs under Windows using Win32Forth. I'm >>>> just trying to port that to the rPi. What native Forth should I use >>>> that would be more suitable than using the Raspian OS that comes with >>>> the board? I believe I have seen a native Forth for the rPi, but I >>>> don't see how that makes anything more simple. >>>> >>>> Funny, one response in this thread says I am silly for thinking about >>>> writing my own code for the data display in a separate window since the >>>> OS provides so many other ways to do that. Now I am being told I am >>>> silly for not wanting to write nearly all of the code myself for the >>>> windows management as well as the serial port driver.... I think. >>> >>> Ok, if the board comes with all the code you need, why is there a long >>> thread about how to do serial I/O? I understand that you have a whole >>> application. It should be straightforward to write the underlying >>> TYPE/ACCEPT support, either natively (I don't know how permissive >>> Raspian is of folks doing their own I/O) or with OS calls. I do know >>> that whatever solution you find will almost certainly be simpler than >>> what you're doing under Windows. >> >> I'm just not following what you are saying. I think when you say >> "native" you mean not using the OS rather than not *having* an OS. I >> have no interest in writing an interrupt driver for an OS when one >> already exists. Why should I reinvent the wheel? >> >> Or do I still not understand what you are suggesting? > > It can be easier to write the driver (which, in my experience, takes > about an hour with no OS) than to spend days finding out how to do it > through an OS. There are several things wrong with that idea. The first is that I *want* to have the OS so that I can use the many other tools available under it. One of my issues with Linux is the lack of support from a variety of vendors, but for the most part I can do anything under Linux I can do under Windows. I bet you aren't typing your posts on a bare metal Forth machine. Secondly I disagree it is an hour job to write and debug a serial port driver on the rPi hardware. I have looked at the hardware manual and I expect it would take much longer just to find the info needed and learning how the device works in enough detail to use interrupts with the UART. This is not an MSP430 or an AVR. One of the reasons I wish to work with the rPi is to put me in a better position to build an add on card for the Pi. This card would very likely include a very low power FPGA and a GA144. But I need to have some level of confidence that I can get a fast interface to the Pi. Right now the few parallel lines and an SPI won't cut it. The BBB looks much better in that regard with a parallel memory mapped interface I am told. But the BBB has much less of a support group. In reality I am learning about Linux as the moment so it doesn't matter as much which hardware I am on. I can change that later if I find it important. > Back in the day, we ignored DOS calls for that very > reason (DOS was much slower, anyway). I am not familiar with Linux or > gForth, but the very fact that there has been such discussion here I > find baffling. Most of the discussion has actually been off topic in the sense that it was not directly along the line of minimal effort to my end. I thought it might be a good idea crossposting to both the Forth group and to the rPi group. It seems many of the replies from the rPi group are about the many different ways the window interface can be done. Many of the replies from the Forth group seem to be suggesting a variety of things, but few of them on target. I expected someone familiar with gForth would point me to an example saying, Here is how so and so did it" as I found when doing this under Win32Forth. The only example I found in gForth was very complex clearly due to needs that are not at all like mine. But I have most of the info I need and might be able to work out the rest. Now I need to figure out how to edit code on the rPi and I should be ready to proceed. I might work from my PC and control the rPi remotely. Or I have been thinking of changing editors on the PC anyway. Maybe this would be a good time to learn Emacs. >> You also mention OS calls which is exactly what I am asking about. I >> find your comparison to Windows a bit silly. So far everything I have >> been told is virtually the same as under Windows. As much as anything I >> am asking about gForth really. gForth runs under Linux and Windows. I'm >> hoping I can find code that works transparently under both. > > If it's easy and just the same as Windows, why the long discussion? I would ask you that question. If you aren't interested in helping, why are you in this discussion making it longer? >> My point in asking about this is that I am sure I'm not the first person >> to use a serial port in gForth. The one code example found so far was >> very complicated, much more so than what I need. > > I fervently hope you find a simpler solution. Serial drivers should be > simple. I think that is true, it is often the OS that is not so simple. -- Rick
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Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:02 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 16:11 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:20 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:44 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 17:09 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 14:45 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2014-10-26 18:57 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 15:14 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-26 19:47 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 16:10 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 08:43 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:31 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-28 14:18 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 17:15 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 13:24 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 16:48 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Raymond Wiker <rwiker@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 22:12 +0100
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:20 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 14:39 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:46 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 15:11 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 18:25 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 15:58 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 09:20 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi josv@planet.nl - 2014-10-29 07:02 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-10-30 11:20 +0100
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 08:56 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-27 10:14 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 08:48 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:35 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-28 14:24 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2014-10-28 15:52 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 12:49 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Ray <ray@invalid.com> - 2014-10-28 17:22 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 17:02 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-10-27 10:07 +0100
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 09:22 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-10-27 11:30 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:37 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-10-28 12:41 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 12:51 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-10-28 18:44 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-10-27 11:49 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:51 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-27 20:31 -1000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 03:01 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-27 21:14 -1000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 03:45 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-27 22:14 -1000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 14:09 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2014-10-28 21:50 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.Reid@ivan.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-10-29 00:01 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 20:50 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.Reid@ivan.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-10-29 01:20 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-29 00:58 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-28 18:04 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-29 01:40 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-29 12:41 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2014-11-16 15:34 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-11-16 12:01 -0500
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-11-16 17:22 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2014-11-16 17:06 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-16 18:27 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 19:19 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-16 20:11 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-11-17 11:56 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-17 13:42 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-11-17 10:14 -0800
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 17:25 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2014-11-16 17:40 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 19:12 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2014-11-16 19:50 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 21:22 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-11-16 17:38 -0500
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-17 00:12 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2014-11-16 19:53 -0600
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-11-17 01:00 +0100
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2014-11-17 12:03 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2014-11-18 20:03 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2014-11-16 18:20 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-29 11:53 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 06:52 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 12:02 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 15:18 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 20:24 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:09 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 22:05 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 20:27 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 17:45 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 21:09 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 18:22 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 23:20 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 20:53 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2014-10-27 10:23 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 13:36 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2014-10-27 22:23 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 09:43 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-27 10:26 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-27 13:15 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-27 14:12 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-27 15:34 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 18:31 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 15:50 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 19:26 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 16:37 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 20:17 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 17:24 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 03:10 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-28 08:11 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-28 09:13 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-28 08:11 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 04:14 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-28 08:15 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2014-10-28 10:22 +0100
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 15:53 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 17:10 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 18:23 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2014-11-15 23:09 +0100
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-16 00:35 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-11-16 00:06 -0500
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-26 19:36 +0000
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 16:24 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 23:48 +0200
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi josv@planet.nl - 2014-10-28 05:27 -0700
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 16:02 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-10-28 22:57 +0100
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 19:54 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 20:01 -0400
Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2014-10-27 04:10 +0100
QUESTIONS and ANSWERS pass in the dark ;< - was [ Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi ] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2014-10-28 14:06 -0500
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