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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #34263

Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi

From rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth, comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi
Date 2014-10-28 17:15 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <m2p132$7bu$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <m2j5vj$rem$1@dont-email.me> <m2jkg1$hkm$1@dont-email.me> <544e05c6$0$6917$e4fe514c@dreader36.news.xs4all.nl> <m2mdjm$lts$1@dont-email.me> <544fa5a5$0$6973$e4fe514c@dreader36.news.xs4all.nl>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 10/28/2014 10:18 AM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> In article <m2mdjm$lts$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/27/2014 4:43 AM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>>> In article <m2jkg1$hkm$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/26/2014 3:47 PM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>>>>> In article <m2jh87$69c$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/26/2014 2:57 PM, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <m2jfg5$ulh$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>         rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> On 10/26/2014 1:09 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now I need to learn how to use gforth to open a serial port and open a
>>>>>>>>>> window from and send text to it to be displayed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Other languages are avalable ... :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Meaning what?  Is using OS functions somehow easier in other languages?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Always easiest in C because that's what the OS functions are written in,
>>>>>>> but many other languages (which might be easier for some people to use)
>>>>>>> can come close enough that other things can sway it in their favor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm still not following.  How does the language the OS was written in
>>>>>> have any impact on the interfaces the OS provides?  This is an OS
>>>>>> interface issue that does not require any recoding of the OS.  So why
>>>>>> would I care what language the OS was written in?
>>>>>
>>>>> That is a good point. For serial i/o you need a c structure called
>>>>> termio. It has a field that specifies a a timeout in centiseconds.
>>>>> Now in c you just use the c-name for that field. In Forth you've to
>>>>> figure out whether the termio is an address or it contains the address
>>>>> of the struct and what the offset of the field is.
>>>>>
>>>>> c-based Forth have a lot of facilities around this, e.g. to interpret
>>>>> c include files
>>>>>
>>>>> [If you can find them,
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of them are piles of
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> #ifdef __USE_GNU
>>>>> ...
>>>>> #endif
>>>>>
>>>>> #ifdef __USE_BSD
>>>>>      #include <ttydefaults.h>
>>>>> #endif
>>>>>
>>>>> chasing you from the cupboard to the wall, as we say in Holland. ]
>>>>
>>>> Funny, when I did it in Win32Forth I didn't use any of that.  Someone
>>>> provided some sample code and I tweaked it for my own use.  I'll be
>>>> looking for similar sample programs in gForth.
>>>
>>> The only thing you're saying is that those are c-based Forth's or
>>> someone did the hard work for you. Neither detracts from the
>>> fact that it is easier to do with c as a starting point.
>>> (You know, I'm the author of an assembler based Forth.)
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by "hard work".  If you mean the few
>> constants, yes, there is a file with them declared in Forth.  Otherwise
>> is is just a windows system call with a data structure.  All of that is
>> already a part of any Forth that runs under an OS.  How else could they
>> get to the I/O?  Serial ports just use a few different constants.
>>
>> You make it sound like it takes enormous work to find those constants
>> and use them.
>
> To find one may be easy. To get everything working like it does in
> Win32Forth or gForth is a gigantic task.
>
> Here is an exercise:
>     you can see that pipe is in man page 2 for linux
>     That means that it must be possible to call it
>     <1> <2> <3> __NR_pipe XOS
>     where XOS is int80 : the generic system call.
>
>     Now find the actual number __NR_pipe such that you can actually call it from
>     Forth. Maybe you're very clever with this, but for me it takes time.

Your exercise is one sided.  What would it have taken for me to find the 
info with C?  It would have been a large task since I know virtually 
nothing about Linux in general.  You think it is easy because you have 
learned to do similar things and this is just applying the knowledge you 
have acquired.  I don't have that knowledge so the Forth example is not 
much bigger than with C.

To be honest, this is not a useful conversation for me.  I'm not really 
sure what your purpose is in pursuing it.

-- 

Rick

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Thread

Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:02 -0400
  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 16:11 +0000
    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:20 -0400
      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:44 -0400
        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 17:09 +0000
          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 14:45 -0400
            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2014-10-26 18:57 +0000
              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 15:14 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-26 19:47 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 16:10 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 08:43 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:31 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-28 14:18 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 17:15 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 13:24 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 16:48 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Raymond Wiker <rwiker@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 22:12 +0100
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:20 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 14:39 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:46 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 15:11 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 18:25 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 15:58 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 09:20 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi josv@planet.nl - 2014-10-29 07:02 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-10-30 11:20 +0100
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 08:56 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-27 10:14 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 08:48 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:35 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-28 14:24 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2014-10-28 15:52 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 12:49 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Ray <ray@invalid.com> - 2014-10-28 17:22 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 17:02 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-10-27 10:07 +0100
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 09:22 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-10-27 11:30 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:37 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-10-28 12:41 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 12:51 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-10-28 18:44 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-10-27 11:49 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:51 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-27 20:31 -1000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 03:01 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-27 21:14 -1000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 03:45 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-27 22:14 -1000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 14:09 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2014-10-28 21:50 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.Reid@ivan.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-10-29 00:01 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 20:50 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.Reid@ivan.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-10-29 01:20 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-29 00:58 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-28 18:04 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-29 01:40 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-29 12:41 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2014-11-16 15:34 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-11-16 12:01 -0500
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-11-16 17:22 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2014-11-16 17:06 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-16 18:27 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 19:19 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-16 20:11 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-11-17 11:56 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-17 13:42 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-11-17 10:14 -0800
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 17:25 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2014-11-16 17:40 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 19:12 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2014-11-16 19:50 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 21:22 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-11-16 17:38 -0500
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-17 00:12 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2014-11-16 19:53 -0600
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-11-17 01:00 +0100
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2014-11-17 12:03 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2014-11-18 20:03 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2014-11-16 18:20 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-29 11:53 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 06:52 -0700
            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 12:02 -0700
              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 15:18 -0400
            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 20:24 +0000
              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:09 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 22:05 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 20:27 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 17:45 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 21:09 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 18:22 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 23:20 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 20:53 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2014-10-27 10:23 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 13:36 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2014-10-27 22:23 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 09:43 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-27 10:26 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-27 13:15 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-27 14:12 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-27 15:34 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 18:31 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 15:50 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 19:26 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 16:37 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 20:17 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 17:24 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 03:10 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-28 08:11 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-28 09:13 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-28 08:11 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 04:14 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-28 08:15 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2014-10-28 10:22 +0100
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 15:53 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 17:10 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 18:23 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2014-11-15 23:09 +0100
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-16 00:35 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-11-16 00:06 -0500
        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-26 19:36 +0000
          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 16:24 -0400
        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 23:48 +0200
        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi josv@planet.nl - 2014-10-28 05:27 -0700
          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 16:02 -0400
            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-10-28 22:57 +0100
              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 19:54 -0400
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 20:01 -0400
    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2014-10-27 04:10 +0100
  QUESTIONS and ANSWERS pass in the dark  ;< - was [ Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi ] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2014-10-28 14:06 -0500

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