Re: ANS Forth test programs

From	Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: ANS Forth test programs
Date	2014-08-07 10:23 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<lrvgiq$5gf$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<lrmddk$667$1@dont-email.me> <158e0309-77a9-401d-8d41-59cd2dcf6b16@googlegroups.com> <lrnu66$52j$1@online.de> <lrr14o$d4i$1@dont-email.me> <38e74a2c-a0b1-4f6e-bb4f-aecaa979e7c0@googlegroups.com>

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On 06/08/2014 04:06, hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 9:35:39 AM UTC-7, Gerry wrote:
>> In that case, provided errors haven't been introduced, GForth joins
>> Swiftforth as the only systems passing all tests.
>
> When I wrote my novice package, I found bugs in every Forth system that I tested it on (I haven't tried VFX yet, but will try it for the next novice package release) --- the whole novice package is just a big collection of work-arounds for bugs in the Forth systems and bad design in ANS-Forth itself..
>
> For example, you can't tick semicolon in Gforth. Anton Ertl explained this away with a lot of hand-waving --- he said that I had no reason to expect all words to have xt values, and that some of them don't. WTF??? But the upshot is that I'm a bad Forth programmer because wrote the novice package and got it to work, but those who don't write any code at all get to be big experts.
>
> This reminds me of a poster I once saw describing the 10 steps that a software project goes through. Step #1 was: "Wild enthusiasm and eagerness to get started." It goes downhill from there. Steps #8, #9 and #10 are: "A search for the guilty," "A persecution of the innocent," and "Fame and glory for the non-participants." I don't have the poster anymore --- I don't remember what all of the other steps were --- but ANS-Forth seems to have settled into these latter steps.
>
> Anyway, I don't put any stock in these test
> suites.

Well if you'd tried them you *may* have known what to avoid for 
particular systems and saved yourself time. They are very quick to run.

I don't think ANS-Forth is a good choice for professional programming 
because the programmer is going to run into bugs and get bogged down. 
What is the point of a test suite when the ANS-Forth document repeatedly 
says that something may be this or may be that? Is the test suite going 
to test both forks?
They're contradictory!!! A program can't be both this and that --- and 
there are multiple forks like this

Can you give an example of such forks and where a chain of them lead to 
exponential growth, and then perhaps I can explain what the tests do. 
Don't list 2's complement or sign+magnitude because the tests assume 2's 
complement as that's what most, if not all, modern processors use. Also, 
for floating point, whether it shares the data stack or is separate as 
these tests don't test FP. Anyway Forth 200X is going towards a separate 
stack.

--- so, thanks to exponential growth, there is the possibility of quite 
a lot of compliant ANS-Forth systems all of which contradict each other.
>

-- 
Gerry

Thread

ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-03 23:34 +0100
  Re: ANS Forth test programs mhx@iae.nl - 2014-08-03 22:33 -0700
    Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-04 08:47 +0100
      Re: ANS Forth test programs "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-08-04 05:10 -0400
        Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-05 17:33 +0100
      Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-21 16:01 +0000
        Re: ANS Forth test programs anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-08-21 16:20 +0000
          Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-21 21:47 +0000
            Re: ANS Forth test programs anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-08-22 12:33 +0000
          Re: ANS Forth test programs albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-08-22 19:23 +0000
        Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-22 12:28 +0100
          Re: ANS Forth test programs "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-08-22 13:35 +0100
            Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-22 17:11 +0100
          Re: ANS Forth test programs anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-08-22 12:47 +0000
    Re: ANS Forth test programs Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-08-04 14:26 +0200
      Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-05 17:35 +0100
        Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-05 20:06 -0700
          Re: ANS Forth test programs "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-08-06 16:43 -0400
          Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-07 10:23 +0100
            Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-07 18:29 -0700
              Re: ANS Forth test programs "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-08-07 23:28 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-08-08 04:25 -0500
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-08 08:08 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-08-08 10:49 -0500
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-08 19:54 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-08-08 16:27 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-08 10:47 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-08-08 22:34 +0200
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-08 21:06 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-08 23:59 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-09 01:35 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-08-09 04:41 -0500
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-09 17:53 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-08-10 03:25 -0500
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-10 03:19 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2014-08-10 05:28 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 22:43 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-13 09:46 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-13 21:17 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-14 10:24 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-08-14 12:10 +0100
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-14 06:02 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-14 23:48 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-14 20:06 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-15 09:13 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-15 21:07 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-08-16 02:22 -0500
                Re: ANS Forth test programs "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-08-16 04:43 -0400
                Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-16 20:37 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2014-08-12 16:55 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 22:47 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-08-13 10:43 +0100
                Re: ANS Forth test programs bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com - 2014-08-16 10:02 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-08-09 11:09 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-08-09 13:34 +0200
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-08-09 21:45 +0200
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-08 13:39 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-08-10 03:21 +0100
                Re: ANS Forth test programs "Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary@msn.com> - 2014-08-08 10:34 -0400
              Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-08 10:18 +0100
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-08 12:48 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-08 21:46 +0100
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-08 14:14 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-08 23:06 +0100
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-08-09 00:40 +0200
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-08 18:17 -0700
  Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-06 14:50 -0700
    Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-07 10:12 +0100
      Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-07 16:07 -0700
  Re: ANS Forth test programs francois.ganza@wanadoo.fr - 2014-08-08 13:40 -0700

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