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Re: Software's Weak Link is Code

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On 7/25/2014 10:22 AM, Roger Levy wrote:
>
>> What does it mean when you say that a forth compiler can be fully
>> verified, and that verified words are like gold? I'm quite new to forth.
>
> I think he meant fully tested against all practical inputs.
>
>> I read the rest of this thread, and it reminds me of passages from our
>> prescribed computer science texts, where it talked about the
>> disappointment of the reality of coding by means of diagrams - it never
>> delivered on it's promise of opening up programming to the visually
>> inclined.
>
> Haha.  Yep!
>
> The reason I think this is, is because "visual programming" doesn't actually solve or change anything, just present the code in a different way.    And often a LESS intuitive way if you ask me.

Funny, over the years I have come to realize that nearly all of my 
thought processes are graphical in nature.  I excel at things that can 
be manipulated as an image in the mind.  I find that I can do lots of 
math in my mind by forming pictures of it.  To me 7 * 24 is an image of 
blocks of 25 arranged in two rows of four (100 per row) with one missing 
and one square missing from each block of 25.  I can "see" the missing 
block of 25 and the seven missing squares so 7 *  24 = 200 - 25 - 7 = 
168.  To me *everything* is visual.

I struggled a bit when I had to start designing FPGAs in HDL rather than 
schematics.  I found written code to convey little understanding or 
form.  In fact, the indentation and white space are the most important 
part of code to me... the "picture" of structure of the code.

Yes, diagrams for complex things can be complex, but only if you don't 
manage them properly.  Just as good code is hierarchical and regular, a 
diagram of that will be well presented and clear.  I always start with a 
block diagram even if it is just in my mind.  So continuing with a 
diagram would be second nature to me.

I think perhaps Dirk is right in that it may be time to consider what 
visual programming can do for us.  It has been used in signal processing 
for some time now and I believe there is a tool from National 
Instruments which produces code for data acquisition and control.  These 
are mainstream products which have been successful for some time now. 
Yes, it is likely overdue to look for better ways to program.

-- 

Rick

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Software's Weak Link is Code visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-07-23 09:59 -0700
  Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-07-23 10:32 -0700
    Re: Software's Weak Link is Code JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2014-07-23 11:40 -0700
      Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Celeros <kerneels@gmail.com> - 2014-07-25 16:10 +0200
        Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-07-25 07:22 -0700
          Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-07-25 07:28 -0700
          Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-07-25 18:06 +0100
          Re: Software's Weak Link is Code rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-07-25 15:16 -0400
            Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-07-25 22:19 +0100
            Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Celeros <kerneels@gmail.com> - 2014-07-26 23:42 +0200
              Re: Software's Weak Link is Code rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-07-26 22:44 -0400
        Re: Software's Weak Link is Code "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-07-25 16:45 -0400
          Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Celeros <kerneels@gmail.com> - 2014-07-26 23:08 +0200
    Re: Software's Weak Link is Code "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-07-24 00:04 +0100
      Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-07-24 08:25 -0700
  Re: Software's Weak Link is Code "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-07-24 03:26 -0400
    Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-07-24 01:32 -0700
    Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2014-07-26 08:17 +0000
      Re: Software's Weak Link is Code "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-07-26 05:39 -0400
        Re: Software's Weak Link is Code visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-07-26 17:37 -0700
  Re: Software's Weak Link is Code anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-07-24 13:45 +0000

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