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| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" |
| Date | 2014-04-10 13:34 -0700 |
| Organization | None to speak of |
| Message-ID | <lnha60appo.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> (permalink) |
| References | (14 earlier) <li24jo$22j$1@dont-email.me> <lnha63avgt.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <li6odd$hop$1@usenet.stanford.edu> <lnob099dc2.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <5346F9A4.7050902@verizon.net> |
James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> writes:
> On 04/10/2014 03:47 PM, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Seungbeom Kim <musiphil@bawi.org> writes:
>>> On 2014-04-08 23:05, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>> It's not entirely clear what the word "variable" should mean in C. The
>>>> standard doesn't use the term;
>>
>> Correction: the standard does use the term, but it doesn't define it.
>>
>>> It's interesting to find out that C never defines the term.
>>> I thought that C defined it in an analogous way to how C++ defines it:
>>>
>>> "A /variable/ is introduced by the declaration ((of a reference
>>> other than a non-static data member or)) of an object.
>>> The variable’s name denotes the ((reference or)) object."
>>>
>>> excluding the irrelevant parts about references (marked with (( )) by me),
>>> of course. So a key feature of a variable would be a named, declared thing.
>>
>> I've seen that definition before. The problem with it is that it
>> makes a couple of statements about variables without actually saying
>> what a variable *is*. Perhaps the author(s) thought it was obvious.
>
> True: but it uses the ISO convention of italicizing "variable" to
> identify that clause, despite it's defects, as the official definition
> of "variable".
Which would be fine if it were actually a definition.
>> The obvious meaning would be that the object *is* a "variable",
>> but it doesn't actually say so. A "variable" could also be some
>> abstract thingie that isn't the object, but whose name denotes
>> the object. It could even be a compile-time symbol table entry.
>
> I don't think that's consistent with the sentence "The variable's name
> denotes the object." If it's the variable's name, how can the name
> denote anything other than the variable? To put it another way, if the
> name denotes the object, and if the variable is something other than the
> object, how does the name qualify as being the name of that variable?
Hmm. If the statement "the FOO'S name is BAR" is logically
equivalent to "the name BAR denotes the FOO", then I see your point.
I'm thinking of the possibility that a "variable" is an abstract
entity that has an attribute called its "name", and that that name
*when used in a program* denotes the object.
If the intent is that the variable is the object, then the definition
should just say so. As it stands, the wording "A variable is
introduced by the declaration ... of an object" implies, at least
to me, that the variable and the object are two different things.
I think I recall someone claiming that a "variable" is the *name*
of an object, not the object itself -- but the phrase "The variable's
name" is inconsistent with that.
Summary: IMHO we all know what a variable is in some cases, we'll
probably never all agree on what is or is not a variable in all cases,
and the C++ standard does a poor job of defining the term.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
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Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" partremmaps@gmail.com - 2014-04-05 13:07 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-05 13:55 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-05 14:14 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-06 22:18 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-06 13:28 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-06 16:35 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 08:55 +1200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-06 23:30 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 10:12 +1200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-06 18:22 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-05 14:30 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-05 22:39 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-06 22:27 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 08:52 +1200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-06 23:20 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 02:17 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-06 19:00 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-07 04:44 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 10:15 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-07 18:32 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-07 18:47 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-04-07 11:39 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 08:58 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 19:34 +1200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 09:41 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 21:45 +1200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 11:03 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 12:54 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 13:48 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 15:27 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 23:00 +1200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 11:31 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2014-04-07 07:24 -0500
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 15:02 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 10:19 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 12:43 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 13:27 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 15:16 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 14:43 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 16:44 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 16:52 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-07 12:53 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-07 12:59 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 18:12 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Richard <rgrdev_@gmail.com> - 2014-04-07 18:27 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-08 23:22 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-08 18:44 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-09 00:22 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-08 09:39 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-08 23:27 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-09 10:52 +1200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-09 00:24 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-09 11:32 +1200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 08:58 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-08 19:54 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-09 00:41 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-08 23:05 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-04-08 18:24 -0500
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-08 19:39 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-08 22:41 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 09:16 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-09 07:27 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 15:32 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-09 08:32 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-10 11:03 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 07:27 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-10 14:02 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-10 08:34 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-10 16:36 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 12:58 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-09 11:36 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-09 18:36 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-04-09 14:11 -0500
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-10 13:55 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 02:35 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-08 23:05 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 09:45 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-09 08:19 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Richard <rgrdev_@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 09:08 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-10 02:57 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Richard <rgrdev_@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 11:50 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Seungbeom Kim <musiphil@bawi.org> - 2014-04-10 11:37 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 14:52 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-10 18:53 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-10 19:36 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 15:59 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-10 20:12 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 16:18 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-11 10:24 -0500
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-11 14:36 -0500
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2014-05-25 16:44 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-10 12:47 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 16:05 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-10 13:34 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 16:59 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-10 16:01 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-14 21:24 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-14 21:36 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-15 05:26 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-15 07:18 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-18 09:01 -0700
Please ignore trolls Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2014-04-09 15:26 +0200
Re: Please ignore trolls David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 15:38 +0200
Re: Please ignore trolls James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-09 12:02 -0400
Re: Please ignore trolls Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-09 19:18 +0000
Re: Please ignore trolls "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-10 20:18 +0100
Re: Please ignore trolls James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 15:49 -0400
Re: Please ignore trolls gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-04-10 20:14 +0000
Re: Please ignore trolls "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-11 14:35 +0100
Re: Please ignore trolls Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-11 07:35 -0700
Re: Please ignore trolls "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-11 15:51 +0100
Re: Please ignore trolls Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-04-12 15:48 +0000
Re: Please ignore trolls Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-10 21:16 +0000
Re: Please ignore trolls "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-12 15:35 +0100
Re: Please ignore trolls Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-09 08:03 -0700
Re: Please ignore trolls gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-04-09 15:25 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-04-09 21:28 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-10 08:39 +1200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-09 23:38 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-04-10 02:07 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-09 05:18 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-09 08:05 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-07 08:33 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 17:16 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-07 11:07 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-08 09:49 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-08 20:33 +1200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-08 12:31 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-08 21:59 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-08 07:37 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-04-08 08:35 -0500
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Seungbeom Kim <musiphil@bawi.org> - 2014-04-08 11:30 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-08 23:46 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-04-08 18:28 -0500
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Seungbeom Kim <musiphil@bawi.org> - 2014-04-08 17:21 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-09 09:07 +0100
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-09 07:22 -0400
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-06 16:25 -0700
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 02:22 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-06 06:08 +0000
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2014-04-06 08:54 +0200
Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" partremmaps@gmail.com - 2014-04-07 23:48 -0700
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