Re: Please ignore trolls

From	James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Please ignore trolls
Date	2014-04-09 12:02 -0400
Organization	Self
Message-ID	<53456F04.9030807@verizon.net> (permalink)
References	(12 earlier) <li093i$svh$1@dont-email.me> <TJ_0v.147431$Bj3.3238@fx09.am4> <li24jo$22j$1@dont-email.me> <li3hof$ddk$1@dont-email.me> <li3ig0$isa$1@dont-email.me>

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On 04/09/2014 09:38 AM, David Brown wrote:
...
> I don't think BartC is a troll, and I think he raises some interesting
> points.  Sometimes he misunderstands parts of C, and is quick to suggest
> improvements or extensions when the issue is actually already covered in
> C, or when they would conflict with key features of C.  When that
> happens, my aim is to help him - just as others here have helped me when
> I have had questions or got things wrong.

I've found BartC's messages annoying, sufficiently so that I've
considered adding him to my message filters - but I don't think "troll"
is a correct description for the reason I'm annoyed by those messages.

He has his own ideas about what a good programming language is like,
which embody a very different philosophy that that used to design C. He
is working to implement those ideas in C. None of that would be a
problem, except that:

* He doesn't know C well enough to do a good job of implementing his own
language. That makes it a very odd choice, unless it's the language he
understands best, it which case it's odd that he feels competent to
design his own language.

* Many of his criticisms of C reflect his ignorance of the language.

* He tends to think of his own language design preferences as being
superior to the conflicting preferences behind the design of C, rather
than being simply alternative preferences. There's room in the IT world
for many different languages with many widely different styles; his
criticisms are seldom worded in a way that reflects awareness of that fact.

* Most annoying, he'll frequently say things that are actually about his
language, in contexts where any reasonable person, knowing this is
"comp.lang.c", would expect his comments to be referring to C. Often,
the only clue that he's not talking about C is that his comments don't
correctly describe C - but that's unfortunately not a reliable way of
distinguishing them from his comments that are actually intended to be
about C.

Thread

Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" partremmaps@gmail.com - 2014-04-05 13:07 -0700
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-05 13:55 -0700
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-05 14:14 -0700
    Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-06 22:18 +0200
      Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-06 13:28 -0700
      Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-06 16:35 -0400
      Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 08:55 +1200
        Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-06 23:30 +0200
          Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 10:12 +1200
          Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-06 18:22 -0400
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-05 14:30 -0700
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-05 22:39 +0100
    Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-06 22:27 +0200
      Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 08:52 +1200
      Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-06 23:20 +0100
        Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 02:17 +0200
          Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-06 19:00 -0700
            Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-07 04:44 +0000
              Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 10:15 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-07 18:32 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-07 18:47 +0000
              Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-04-07 11:39 +0200
            Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 08:58 +0200
              Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 19:34 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 09:41 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 21:45 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 11:03 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 12:54 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 13:48 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 15:27 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 23:00 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 11:31 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2014-04-07 07:24 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 15:02 +0200
          Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 10:19 +0100
            Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 12:43 +0200
              Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 13:27 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 15:16 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 14:43 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 16:44 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 16:52 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-07 12:53 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-07 12:59 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 18:12 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Richard <rgrdev_@gmail.com> - 2014-04-07 18:27 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-08 23:22 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-08 18:44 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-09 00:22 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-08 09:39 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-08 23:27 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-09 10:52 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-09 00:24 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-09 11:32 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 08:58 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-08 19:54 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-09 00:41 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-08 23:05 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-04-08 18:24 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-08 19:39 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-08 22:41 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 09:16 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-09 07:27 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 15:32 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-09 08:32 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-10 11:03 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 07:27 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-10 14:02 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-10 08:34 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-10 16:36 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 12:58 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-09 11:36 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-09 18:36 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-04-09 14:11 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-10 13:55 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 02:35 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-08 23:05 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 09:45 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-09 08:19 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Richard <rgrdev_@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 09:08 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-10 02:57 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Richard <rgrdev_@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 11:50 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Seungbeom Kim <musiphil@bawi.org> - 2014-04-10 11:37 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 14:52 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-10 18:53 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-10 19:36 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 15:59 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-10 20:12 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 16:18 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-11 10:24 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-11 14:36 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2014-05-25 16:44 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-10 12:47 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 16:05 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-10 13:34 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 16:59 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-10 16:01 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-14 21:24 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-14 21:36 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-15 05:26 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-15 07:18 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-18 09:01 -0700
                Please ignore trolls Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2014-04-09 15:26 +0200
                Re: Please ignore trolls David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 15:38 +0200
                Re: Please ignore trolls James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-09 12:02 -0400
                Re: Please ignore trolls Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-09 19:18 +0000
                Re: Please ignore trolls "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-10 20:18 +0100
                Re: Please ignore trolls James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 15:49 -0400
                Re: Please ignore trolls gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-04-10 20:14 +0000
                Re: Please ignore trolls "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-11 14:35 +0100
                Re: Please ignore trolls Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-11 07:35 -0700
                Re: Please ignore trolls "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-11 15:51 +0100
                Re: Please ignore trolls Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-04-12 15:48 +0000
                Re: Please ignore trolls Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-10 21:16 +0000
                Re: Please ignore trolls "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-12 15:35 +0100
                Re: Please ignore trolls Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-09 08:03 -0700
                Re: Please ignore trolls gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-04-09 15:25 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-04-09 21:28 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-10 08:39 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-09 23:38 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-04-10 02:07 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-09 05:18 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-09 08:05 -0700
            Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-07 08:33 -0700
              Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 17:16 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-07 11:07 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-08 09:49 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-08 20:33 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-08 12:31 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-08 21:59 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-08 07:37 -0700
              Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-04-08 08:35 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Seungbeom Kim <musiphil@bawi.org> - 2014-04-08 11:30 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-08 23:46 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-04-08 18:28 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Seungbeom Kim <musiphil@bawi.org> - 2014-04-08 17:21 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-09 09:07 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-09 07:22 -0400
      Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-06 16:25 -0700
        Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 02:22 +0200
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-06 06:08 +0000
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2014-04-06 08:54 +0200
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" partremmaps@gmail.com - 2014-04-07 23:48 -0700

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