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Groups > comp.lang.c > #4698

Re: Types in C

From Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Types in C
Date 2011-05-24 08:27 -0700
Organization None to speak of
Message-ID <ln39k415lp.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <slrnitl4c6.o5q.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net> <ireaa0$92r$1@speranza.aioe.org> <lnaaed2pwu.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <slrnitldk4.tio.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net> <iref3o$ma4$1@speranza.aioe.org>

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jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> writes:
[...]
> What bothers me is that I get never a discussion about the main
> argumentation of my posts but always
>
> "Just a quibble" and the we start discussing about small details
> that are just that: details

Details are important.  If I don't comment on your main point,
it's usually because I don't have much to say about it.

You've got perhaps a dozen people commenting on your posts, and
nearly 7 billion saying nothing at all -- but you choose to complain
about the ones who've actually taken the time to comment.

If you want me to spend my time discussing what you're interested
in, we can discuss consulting rates.

> What do you think of the two definitions
> (1) Functional (a type is an algorithm description)
> (2) Conceptual (A type embodies a concept in the program)
>
> And I think I am missing one:
>
> (3) A type implies a set of operations allowed with it.
>
> This would be different than (1) since (1) refers to calculating
> the "value" stored in a type.
>
> I am sure (3) is missing but can't really identify it yet as
> definitely distinct of (1).

The idea of a type being an algorithm doesn't seem quite right, even
after reading some of the followups in this thread.  There might be any
number of algorithms associated with a type.  I think you're thinking of
an algorithm whose end result tells us the meaning of a value, but I'd
say it's that meaning, rather than the method used to determine it,
that's significant.

The standard's definition of "type" is probably a decent starting point.
C99 6.2.5p1:

    The meaning of a value stored in an object or returned by a
    function is determined by the *type* of the expression used
    to access it. (An identifier declared to be an object is
    the simplest such expression; the type is specified in the
    declaration of the identifier.)

Like many of the standard's "definitions", it's not really a definition.
It's a statement about types, not a statement of exactly what the word
"type" means.

For a tutorial, I might write something like:

    A stored value consists of a collection of bits.  A *type*
    is what determines the meaning of that collection of bits.

    For example, a 32-bit object containing the bits:
        1000000010010010000111111011011
    might represent the integer value 1078530011, the floating-point
    value 3.1415927 (approximately), or a pointer value, depending
    on the type of the object.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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Thread

Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-22 21:29 +0200
  Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-22 12:48 -0700
  Re: Types in C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-05-22 23:03 +0100
    Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-23 10:35 +0200
      Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-23 08:40 -0700
        Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 17:19 +0000
          Re: Types in C John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-05-23 17:54 +0000
            Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-23 11:33 -0700
              Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-23 11:44 -0700
            Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 19:08 +0000
          Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-23 20:50 +0200
            Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-23 12:11 -0700
              Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 19:45 +0000
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-23 13:03 -0700
                Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-23 22:25 +0200
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-23 14:38 -0700
                Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-23 23:45 +0200
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 22:02 +0000
                Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-24 00:10 +0200
                Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-23 22:12 +0200
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-23 13:27 -0700
                Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-23 22:33 +0200
                Re: Types in C Martin Ambuhl <mambuhl@earthlink.net> - 2011-05-24 03:17 -0400
                Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-24 10:55 +0200
                Re: Types in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 09:29 +1200
                Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-23 23:42 +0200
                Re: Types in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 09:51 +1200
                Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-24 00:04 +0200
                Re: Types in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 10:57 +1200
                Re: Types in C David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2011-06-01 16:33 -0400
                Re: Types in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 19:33 -0500
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-24 08:27 -0700
                Re: Types in C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-31 00:40 -0700
                Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-31 11:32 +0200
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 11:30 -0700
                Re: Types in C Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-06-01 01:23 -0700
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 16:51 -0400
                Re: Types in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 09:25 +1200
                Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-23 23:40 +0200
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-24 08:36 -0700
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 17:53 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 22:24 +0000
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 19:23 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 23:57 +0000
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 21:22 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-24 03:46 +0000
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 00:24 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-24 04:44 +0000
                Re: Types in C pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-05-24 07:46 -0400
                Re: Types in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-24 07:48 -0400
                Re: Types in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 10:35 +1200
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 22:38 +0000
                Re: Types in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 10:53 +1200
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 23:17 +0000
                Re: Types in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 11:24 +1200
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 23:39 +0000
                Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-24 11:23 +0200
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-24 08:46 -0700
                Re: Types in C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-05-24 09:14 -0700
                Re: Types in C Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-05-28 21:50 -0700
                Re: Types in C "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-07 19:50 +0200
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 19:33 -0400
                Re: Types in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 12:03 +1200
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 21:27 -0400
                Re: Types in C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-24 13:47 +1200
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 23:45 -0400
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-24 00:07 -0700
                Re: Types in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-24 08:05 -0400
                Re: Types in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 19:54 -0500
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 21:03 -0400
                Re: Types in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 22:12 -0500
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 00:03 -0400
                Re: Types in C pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-05-24 00:19 -0400
                Re: Types in C pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-05-24 00:20 -0400
                Re: Types in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 00:46 -0500
                Re: Types in C pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-05-24 07:36 -0400
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 10:58 -0400
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-24 09:40 -0700
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 21:36 -0400
                Re: Types in C David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2011-06-01 16:33 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-24 16:50 +0000
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 21:10 -0400
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-24 18:19 -0700
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 21:42 -0400
                Re: Types in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 23:47 -0500
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 10:13 -0400
                Re: Types in C Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-05-24 22:19 -0600
                Re: Types in C Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2011-05-25 07:04 +0100
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-25 08:53 -0700
                Re: Types in C Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-05-25 10:11 -0600
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-24 09:02 -0700
                Re: Types in C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-05-24 07:37 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 22:02 +0000
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 18:15 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 22:25 +0000
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 19:39 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-23 23:57 +0000
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 21:10 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-24 01:58 +0000
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 23:56 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-24 04:32 +0000
                Re: Types in C "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-05-25 01:29 +0100
                Re: Types in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 22:20 -0500
                Re: Types in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 22:42 -0500
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 00:07 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-24 04:44 +0000
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 10:24 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-24 16:50 +0000
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 21:16 -0400
                Re: Types in C Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-05-25 03:36 +0000
                Re: Types in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 01:26 -0500
                Re: Types in C Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 11:04 -0400
                Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-24 09:06 -0700
            Re: Types in C David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2011-06-01 16:33 -0400
  Re: Types in C Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-05-30 22:42 +0200
    Re: Types in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-30 17:45 -0500
      Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-05-31 08:47 -0700
        Re: Types in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 13:54 -0400
    Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-05-31 00:16 +0200
      Re: Types in C Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-05-30 18:30 -0500
      Re: Types in C Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-06-02 22:44 +0200
        Re: Types in C jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-06-02 22:49 +0200
          Re: Types in C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-02 15:26 -0700

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