Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model

From	glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model
Date	2014-04-18 04:54 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<liqb64$ol$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <lnr44x6ywl.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <87vbu8a2n8.fsf@panda.goosenet.in> <lna9bk6lxm.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <lip739$i4h$1@speranza.aioe.org> <lnwqen6516.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>

Show all headers | View raw

Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:

(snip, I wrote)

>> Can you give an example of what C90 allowed?

>> My interpetation of C90 was that it allowed for sign magnitude,
>> ones complement, and twos complement.  (Of the ones that actually
>> made any sense.)

>> As well as I knew it, K&R allowed for more than that.

> C90 did not say much about the representation of signed integer types.
> It says:

>    The representations of integral types shall define values by use of
>    a pure binary numeration system.

> There's no mention of 2's-complement or any other signed
> representation scheme.  But it did require any value representable
> both as a signed int and as an unsigned int to have the same
> representation in both (likewise for other signed/unsigned paris),
> which eliminates some possible schemes.

Not counting padding bits, and using the same number of bits for
signed and unsigned, three choices that work and make sense are
sign magnitude, ones, and twos, complement.

You could imagine a system where the value bits had the same position
(except the sign bit) as unsigned when the sign bit was zero, and
completely different positions when it was one, but that doesn't
make much sense. It also disallows a biased representation
(twos complement with the sign bit inverted). 

Seems to me that there could be hardware without an unsigned
representation (or the ability to do arithmetic on one), such
that C unsigned types had half the range of C signed types.
(That is, INT_MAX equals UINT_MAX.)  (For twos complement, you
can fake unsigned with some extra work. Much harder with ones
complement.) For hardware with a biased represenation, you
could call the sign bit a padding bit, which should be 1 for
unsigned types.

I believe, though, that the "all bits zero for zero" idea is so
deep in the minds of hardware designers that it isn't likely
to happen.

> C99 limited the scope of that statement:

>    Values stored in unsigned bit-fields and objects of type unsigned
>    char shall be represented using a pure binary notation.

> It introduced the distinction between value bits and padding bits (which
> C90 didn't mention) and required signed integer types to be represented
> using either sign and magnitude, two's complement, or one's complement.

I am still waiting for a C compiler for the 7090 to try out
sign magnitude. As far as I know, the last (well, maybe the 7094)
of the sign magnitude machines.

> I *think* that C90 implicitly permitted padding bits, even though it
> didn't mention them.  One could argue that the phrase "pure binary
> numeration system" is inconsistent with padding bits, but C99 does use
> the phrase "pure binary representation" in reference to just the value
> bits.  And it would be odd for C99 to loosen the requirements for integer
> representation relative to C90 while simultaneously tightening the
> requirements for signed representation by listing the three permitted
> forms.

> So assuming that C90 permitted padding bits, you could imagine an
> implementation where int is 32 bits, but one of the bits is a padding
> bit that must be set to 1.  I'm fairly sure such an implementation is
> permitted (perhaps unintentionally) by the original C99 standard.  It's
> specifically forbidden the second Technical Corrigendum, and therefore
> by N1256 and C11.

> The change was introduced in response to Defect Report #263 and
> published in TC 2.

> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_263.htm

-- glen

Thread

Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyant@panda.goosenet.in> - 2014-04-10 23:38 +0530
  Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-10 13:30 -0700
    Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-12 00:34 +0530
      Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-11 12:25 -0700
      Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-16 01:12 +0530
        Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-04-16 01:33 +0100
          Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-16 17:57 +0530
            Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-16 06:00 -0700
            Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-16 10:58 -0400
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-16 09:07 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-16 12:22 -0400
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-16 10:38 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-16 19:37 +0000
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-17 12:00 +0530
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-17 09:32 +0000
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-17 12:24 +0100
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-17 08:16 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-17 04:41 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2014-04-17 07:49 -0500
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-17 08:00 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-17 15:06 +0000
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-18 21:04 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-17 18:38 +0000
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-17 15:26 -0400
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-17 21:00 +0100
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-17 16:34 -0400
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-18 04:31 +0000
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-17 14:05 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-17 17:06 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-18 04:54 +0000
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-18 11:51 -0700
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-17 11:42 +0530
            Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-04-16 16:54 +0100
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-16 15:22 -0700
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-17 13:03 +0530
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-17 08:44 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-17 12:12 -0400
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-18 12:38 +0530
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-18 03:11 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-18 12:32 +0530
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-18 10:05 -0400
        Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-16 07:10 +0000
        Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-17 13:10 -0400
          Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-18 18:24 +0530
            Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-18 09:52 -0400
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-18 20:04 +0530
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-18 11:00 -0400
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-20 01:49 +0530
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-19 21:20 +0000
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-20 11:11 +0530
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2014-04-20 09:06 -0400
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-20 10:50 -0400
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-21 09:14 -0700
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-19 05:43 +0000
            Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-18 19:47 +0530
            Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-21 01:21 +0530
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-20 14:24 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-21 10:40 +0530
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-21 12:29 +0530
          Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-18 08:36 -0700
            Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-18 13:40 -0400
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-18 11:14 -0700
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-18 13:55 -0700
            Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-19 01:25 +0530
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-19 01:44 +0530
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-18 20:24 +0000
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-18 13:36 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-19 20:18 +0530
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Richard <rgrdev_@gmail.com> - 2014-04-19 14:55 +0100
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-20 02:10 +0530
            Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-19 05:40 +0000
              Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-19 14:39 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-20 10:44 +1200
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-19 17:11 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-20 11:24 +0530
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-19 17:19 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-20 10:10 +0000
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-20 14:21 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-20 22:18 +0000
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-20 19:27 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-21 12:38 +0000
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-21 18:12 +0530
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-21 13:13 +0000
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-21 19:46 +0530
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-21 09:06 -0700
                Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2014-04-21 00:26 +0200
        Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-18 01:15 +0530
        Re: Request for source code review of simple Ising model Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2014-04-20 11:46 +0530

csiph-web