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Re: Tone Deafness

From Don Y <this@isnotme.com>
Newsgroups comp.arch.embedded, sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: Tone Deafness
Date 2013-08-15 10:47 -0700
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <kuj46j$r0e$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <WPGdneG5cYUrnpHPnZ2dnUVZ5ugAAAAA@giganews.com> <20130814154341.47a3a1a1@rg.highlandtechnology.com> <1G2Pt.11024$Z_5.670@fx12.am4>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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Hi Martin,

On 8/15/2013 4:09 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> Choosing two notes an octave apart is probably not a good idea. They
> would be hard for some perhaps many people to distinguish. I am not sure
> what the best combination or separation would be but a pure frequency
> sine wave for happy and a dischordant squarewave chord for unhappy ought
> to be distinguishable even by someone who is tone deaf.

Why not just a solid tone vs. a chopped tone?  The problem arises
when you want to convey more than two states.

>> Ears are just simpler hardware.
>
> If you count realtime Fourier analysis with additional temporal
> resolution on transients beyond what classical signal processing permits
> then yes they are "simple" hardware. In practice it is a lot harder than
> that and the ear is easily fooled by auditory illusions like the forever
> rising tone in shades of Escher.

Agreed.  Ears / hearing are amazingly complex -- esp given their
"mechanical" nature.

I've spent a fair bit of time working with "3D" audio displays.
It is incredibly frustrating how the math *appears* to work
yet fails, miserably, when trying to simulate the placement of
an audio source in 3-space.

E.g., elevation is amazingly difficult to resolve.  Synthesized
sound appears to be located *inside* your head.  Front-back
reversals are common.  Yet, a "real person" interacting with sounds
in "real space" seldom encounters these same problems!  I.e., ITD
ILD/IAD/IID, HRTF don't seem to cover the whole problem (in terms of
classic signal processing?!)

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Thread

Tone Deafness Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-08-14 17:24 -0500
  Re: Tone Deafness Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@technologyhighland.invalid> - 2013-08-14 15:43 -0700
    Re: Tone Deafness Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2013-08-14 17:18 -0800
    Re: Tone Deafness David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2013-08-15 08:53 +0200
    Re: Tone Deafness josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-08-15 08:48 +0000
    Re: Tone Deafness Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 10:17 +0100
    Re: Tone Deafness Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 12:09 +0100
      Re: Tone Deafness Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-15 10:47 -0700
      Re: Tone Deafness gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2013-08-28 18:44 +0000
  Re: Tone Deafness Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> - 2013-08-14 22:51 +0000
  Re: Tone Deafness Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.com> - 2013-08-14 23:53 +0100
  Re: Tone Deafness Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 00:05 +0100
  Re: Tone Deafness Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 00:13 +0100
    Re: Tone Deafness Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-15 05:46 +0000
    Re: Tone Deafness Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-14 23:31 -0700
  Re: Tone Deafness John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2013-08-14 16:14 -0700
    Re: Tone Deafness Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> - 2013-08-14 18:58 -0500
      Re: Tone Deafness Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 09:22 +0100
    Re: Tone Deafness RobertMacy <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> - 2013-08-15 07:53 -0700
      Re: Tone Deafness John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> - 2013-08-15 08:18 -0700
        Re: Tone Deafness "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2013-08-22 12:27 +0200
  Re: Tone Deafness Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-14 17:15 -0700
  Re: Tone Deafness Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-08-14 17:21 -0700
  Re: Tone Deafness Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 02:11 +0100
  Re: Tone Deafness Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-14 18:29 -0700
    Re: Tone Deafness "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> - 2013-08-14 22:51 -0500
  Re: Tone Deafness Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> - 2013-08-14 21:34 -0500
    Re: Tone Deafness "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> - 2013-08-14 23:07 -0500
      Re: Tone Deafness "P E Schoen" <paul@peschoen.com> - 2013-08-15 21:48 -0400
      Re: Tone Deafness gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2013-08-28 18:42 +0000
        Re: Tone Deafness "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> - 2013-08-28 16:38 -0500
    Re: Tone Deafness Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 09:24 +0100
      Re: Tone Deafness pippo2@disney.com (Jack) - 2013-08-15 10:48 +0200
        Re: Tone Deafness Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 10:24 +0100
          Re: Tone Deafness Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 14:00 +0100
  Re: Tone Deafness Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-14 22:25 -0500
  Re: Tone Deafness Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-15 05:42 +0000
    Re: Tone Deafness "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2013-08-15 10:23 -0400
  Re: Tone Deafness "Tom Del Rosso" <tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> - 2013-08-15 08:30 -0400
    Re: Tone Deafness nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) - 2013-08-15 19:07 +0000
      Re: Tone Deafness "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2013-08-15 15:40 -0400
        Re: Tone Deafness "Tom Del Rosso" <tomd_u1@verizon.net.invalid> - 2013-08-16 22:23 -0400
          Re: Tone Deafness "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2013-08-17 04:26 -0400
            Re: Tone Deafness josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-08-18 05:00 +0000
            Re: Tone Deafness gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2013-08-28 18:48 +0000
    Re: Tone Deafness Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-08-15 15:48 -0700
      Re: Tone Deafness Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2013-08-15 19:55 -0400
        Re: Tone Deafness Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2013-08-16 09:30 +0200
        Re: Tone Deafness Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-08-16 13:47 -0700
      Re: Tone Deafness T <kd1s.nospam@cox.nospam.net> - 2013-08-16 01:50 -0400
        Re: Tone Deafness Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-16 10:16 -0500
      Re: Tone Deafness Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2013-08-16 09:16 +0100
      Re: Tone Deafness gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2013-08-28 18:50 +0000
        Re: Tone Deafness Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-08-28 19:44 -0700
          Re: Tone Deafness gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2013-08-29 09:26 +0000
            Re: Tone Deafness Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-08-29 09:17 -0700
  Re: Tone Deafness Ecnerwal <MyNameForward@ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> - 2013-08-15 12:05 -0400
    Re: Tone Deafness Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 17:29 +0100
      Re: Tone Deafness Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 18:00 +0100
      Re: Tone Deafness Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-15 11:16 -0700
        Re: Tone Deafness josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-08-16 02:56 +0000
          Re: Tone Deafness Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-15 21:47 -0700
            Re: Tone Deafness josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-08-17 16:36 +0000
              Re: Tone Deafness Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-08-17 11:49 -0700
  Re: Tone Deafness NotReallyMe <nrm@vallidatedsoftware.com> - 2013-08-16 10:23 -0700
    Re: Tone Deafness Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-16 17:29 +0000
      Re: Tone Deafness "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2013-08-17 04:32 -0400
      Re: Tone Deafness "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2013-08-22 13:10 +0200
  Re: Tone Deafness Jim Stewart <jstewart@jkmicro.com> - 2013-08-20 13:18 -0700
  Re: Tone Deafness bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-25 23:49 -0500
    Re: Tone Deafness bbhack <bbhack@gmail.com> - 2013-08-26 01:21 -0500
    Re: Tone Deafness Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-26 07:01 +0000
    Re: Tone Deafness josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> - 2013-08-28 03:51 +0000

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