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Re: There is no material length contraction

From Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: There is no material length contraction
Date 2023-08-02 10:57 +1000
Message-ID <kitnv5Fo8nkU2@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <f528abb1-f28f-4359-9cd8-015db6803417n@googlegroups.com> <kir7s9FbunmU1@mid.individual.net> <b8524e56-ff85-4d2c-9418-d8b0911f7fc8n@googlegroups.com> <kitfifFn1g9U1@mid.individual.net> <5b75c472-0665-46c0-8780-8670f4e81b47n@googlegroups.com>

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On 02-Aug-23 9:40 am, Ken Seto wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 6:33:55 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 01-Aug-23 9:25 pm, Ken Seto wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 10:10:22 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 01-Aug-23 11:38 am, Ken Seto wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 8:41:31 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>> On 01-Aug-23 9:42 am, Ken Seto wrote:
>>>>>>> Einstein invented length contraction to make his Postulate P2 constant light speed in all frames viable.
>>>>>>> Here's how:
>>>>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remain constant in all frames.
>>>>>>> 2. Einstein invented length contraction without specifyin what is
>>>>>>> contracting.
>>>>>>> This allowed him to claim that Length contraction along with time dilation
>>>>>>> to give him constant light speed in all frames.
>>>>>>> The real reason why the speed of light is not constant in all frames is as follows:
>>>>>>> 1. The material length of a meter stick remains constant in all frames.
>>>>>>> 2. The light-path-length (LPL)...the length that light must travel to cover the material length of a meter stick ....
>>>>>>> 3. The LPL of the observer's meter stick is 1meter ...the same as its material
>>>>>>> length..
>>>>>>> 4. The LPL of a meter moving wrt the observer is predicted to be 1/gamma or gamma.
>>>>>>> 5. Einstein assumed that the LPL of the moving meter stick only 1/gamma. and thus all meter stick moving wrt the observer will have LPL 1/gamma. This is wrong. The LPL of a moving meter can be gamma. This means that SR is only half of the story.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, there is no material length contraction. Einstein never said
>>>>>> there was.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what did Einstein said what is contracting? The LPL as I said above?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>> Relativity is a theoretical model. It tells you what to expect if you do
>>>> measurements. That's it. If you want to interpret the result of certain
>>>> measurements as meaning that a length has contracted, that's up to you,
>>>> but it goes beyond the theory, and your interpretation has no observable
>>>> conse
>>>
>>> Ha.....so relativity is a model I think that my model is better.
>>> My model:
>>> 1. The speed of light is variable...it depends on the absolute speed of the source and the receiver in
>>> the aether.
>>> 2 Material length (such as a meter stick) is constant in all frames
>>> 3. The length light need to t ravel to cover the material length of a meter stick is variable..and this length is identified as LPL. (light path length)
>>> 4. The time for light tio cover the material length of a meter stick is variable.
>>> 5. Variable length/variable time = Constant "c"
>>>
>>> So you see ......my model is better because it provides explanation why the sped of light is constant in all frames.
>>>>
>>>
>> If the model does not correctly predict the results of measurements,
>> then it's wrong. Relativity does correctly predict them. Your model
>> either predicts the same results, and is just a different mathematical
>> formulation of the same predictions, or your model is wrong.
>>
> 
> How do you know that my model doesn't't give the correct predictions?
> .

I didn't say that it doesn't. But you haven't pointed to an experimental 
result that shows that relativity is wrong (as distinct from an 
experiment that you think would do so if it were performed).

If your theory makes the same predictions are relativity, then I 
reiterate my point that that means it's just a different mathematical 
formulation.

If it differs in its predictions, then you have the opportunity to do an 
experiment that will distinguish between your theory and relativity. But 
you'd have to do it, not just say you think it would support your theory 
and falsify relativity.

You like your theory. We get it. But overturning relativity requires 
more than that.

Sylvia.

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Thread

There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 16:42 -0700
  Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-01 10:41 +1000
    Re: There is no material length contraction patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-07-31 18:15 -0700
    Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 18:38 -0700
      Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-01 12:10 +1000
        Re: There is no material length contraction Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 21:47 -0700
          Re: There is no material length contraction patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-07-31 22:04 -0700
            Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-03 15:52 +1000
              Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-03 09:50 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 02:55 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-03 09:57 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 03:09 -0700
              Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 07:01 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 10:30 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-03 14:01 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 12:42 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Rob Bibler <rreb@bieillii.ir> - 2023-08-03 20:02 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 14:29 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-03 22:37 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 20:28 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 04:11 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 13:34 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:41 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 23:31 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 21:21 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 00:50 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 10:57 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 14:38 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 10:11 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-06 21:00 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-07 11:34 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Rondell Verre <eror@vedllele.ee> - 2023-08-05 20:10 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:52 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 12:58 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-05 14:43 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 21:36 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 14:22 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 15:00 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 17:53 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-07 11:39 -0400
                Reciprocal dilation of internal chronotropies (SR) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-07 15:53 +0000
                Re: Reciprocal dilation of internal chronotropies (SR) Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 19:24 +0200
                Re: Reciprocal dilation of internal chronotropies (SR) Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-07 18:32 +0000
                Re: Reciprocal dilation of internal chronotropies (SR) Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 22:43 +0200
                Re: Reciprocal dilation of internal chronotropies (SR) whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-07 12:29 -0500
                Re: Reciprocal dilation of internal chronotropies (SR) Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-07 16:45 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 11:01 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-07 16:48 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Nat Vaikule <nukv@vektnaaa.nv> - 2023-08-07 21:25 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 15:34 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Jarrell Martirosov <ajrr@riilromm.aa> - 2023-08-08 10:03 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-08-07 18:01 -0500
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-10 18:53 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 19:07 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 13:20 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-10 18:58 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ronaldo Amerhanov <hera@aeladhrd.ma> - 2023-08-12 20:57 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-14 06:07 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-14 09:06 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-14 16:21 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-14 09:39 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ozzie Jakushov <ezhu@ijjhhouv.az> - 2023-08-04 21:35 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 15:58 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Beraldo Hapy <lhap@aaloyohe.pl> - 2023-08-05 03:00 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 05:30 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Dalton Dubman <nlat@tualtadd.db> - 2023-08-08 14:02 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-08 10:45 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 06:48 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 06:58 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-09 12:31 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 08:38 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-10 11:56 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Kaosayn Shakhbazyan <nazs@aoonaaoo.ah> - 2023-08-10 16:30 +0000
        Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 22:12 -0700
          Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-03 16:04 +1000
            Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 00:19 -0700
              Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-03 19:06 +1000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 02:53 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-04 08:03 +1000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 20:23 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-04 13:22 +0000
            Re: There is no material length contraction patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-03 01:21 -0700
              Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-03 19:10 +1000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-03 09:56 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-03 08:57 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-03 16:13 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-03 09:24 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 20:22 +0200
                Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-03 17:28 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-08-03 10:57 -0700
        Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 04:25 -0700
          Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-01 09:08 -0400
            Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 06:14 -0700
            Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 07:40 -0700
              Re: There is no material length contraction "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 10:30 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Shkelqim Jadrennikov <meem@qnoeeooq.ds> - 2023-08-01 20:49 +0000
              Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-01 22:57 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 06:43 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-03 14:11 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 11:38 -0700
            Re: There is no material length contraction Darling Vavravsky <rlrg@kakkdvyv.lv> - 2023-08-01 20:33 +0000
              Re: There is no material length contraction Chaney Charnolusky <ycck@sarhhnkn.ca> - 2023-08-01 20:59 +0000
          Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-02 08:33 +1000
            Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-01 23:09 +0000
              Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-02 09:15 +1000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-02 10:17 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 03:23 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Richard Hachel <r.hachel@frite.fr> - 2023-08-02 11:47 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 05:12 -0700
            Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 16:40 -0700
              Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 16:51 -0700
              Re: There is no material length contraction Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-08-02 10:57 +1000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 18:26 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-01 23:04 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 21:58 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 21:59 -0700
              Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-01 23:00 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 11:53 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-03 15:01 -0400
                Re: There is no material length contraction Moody Vallah <mahv@ohoymldo.lv> - 2023-08-03 19:41 +0000
                Re: There is no material length contraction Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 13:00 -0700
                Re: There is no material length contraction James Dzhunkovsky <uskv@mdjjsnue.ze> - 2023-08-03 19:23 +0000
    Re: There is no material length contraction nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-08-01 11:07 +0200
  Re: There is no material length contraction JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 17:46 -0700
    Re: There is no material length contraction Ken Seto <setoken47@gmail.com> - 2023-07-31 18:40 -0700
    Re: There is no material length contraction Lamont Bakhmutov <mktk@tomhmtmm.ml> - 2023-08-01 21:10 +0000
      Re: There is no material length contraction Thad Mokrinsky <aonk@yoitaito.rm> - 2023-08-01 21:33 +0000

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