Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.lang.forth > #20186

Re: State and the standard ...

From Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: State and the standard ...
Date 2013-03-02 20:24 +0100
Organization 1&1 Internet AG
Message-ID <kgtjkm$d6t$1@online.de> (permalink)
References <alpine.BSF.2.00.1302281120350.94888@yoko.controlq.com> <5131e181.1497895969@192.168.0.50> <2013Mar2.185555@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

Show all headers | View raw


Anton Ertl wrote:
> A notation for defining combined words is certainly an improvement
> over STATE-smart words, and if we cannot reach consensus on anything
> better, we should go for that.
> 
> However, I wonder whether the problem should not be attacked at a
> different level, by providing an attractive alternative to parsting
> words (e.g., through recognizers); admittedly that would only solve
> the problem for parsing words, not for control-flow words.  But
> parsing words seems to be the most common cause for STATE-smartness,
> people seem to be more ready to accept the difference between
> interpretation and compilation for control-flow (or maybe it's just
> because that's harder to implement).

Is it really harder to implement?  We have a whole bunch of interactive 
control flow structures in Gforth, all with [] around their names.

They would work just as well if they were "smart" IFs and THENs.

IMHO, state+immediate was an ad hoc solution for this kind of problem, and 
it turned out to be a bit too simple, and even Chuck realized that.  The 
next approach at solving this problems was cmForth with different 
vocabularies for compilation and interpretation, and it again is too simple.  
Your approach was dual-Xts for these special compilation semantics, and it 
had some similar deficits.  The next approach is smart compile, and the only 
issue it has are compatibility problems with the state+immediate approach 
(it can't model the deficiencies, and for some applications, bugs are 
actually features ;-), so a Forth like VFX or Gforth 0.8 system needs to 
support both.

Chucks pretty much sidestepped the problem in ColorForth, where the colors 
are the only tokens which parse, and everything else has a more passive 
role.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

Back to comp.lang.forth | Previous | NextPrevious in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread


Thread

State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-28 11:35 -0500
  Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-03-01 20:46 -0500
    Re: State and the standard ... Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-01 19:33 -1000
    Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-02 03:33 -0600
      Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-03-03 18:09 -0500
        Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-03 15:01 -1000
        Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 03:06 -0600
        Re: State and the standard ... Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-03-04 11:38 +0100
  Re: State and the standard ... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-02 11:34 +0000
    Re: State and the standard ... "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-03-02 13:47 +0100
    Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-02 14:07 +0100
    Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-02 12:38 -0500
      Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-02 15:50 -0600
        Re: State and the standard ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-02 22:11 +0000
          Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 02:51 +0100
            Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:56 +0000
              Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 22:42 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-03 22:02 +0000
                Re: State and the standard ... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-04 00:19 -0800
                Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-05 00:14 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 16:34 +0000
                Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-07 18:04 +0000
                Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-08 01:31 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 14:41 +0000
                Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-09 17:04 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-08 02:19 -0800
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 04:25 -0600
                Re: State and the standard ... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-08 03:35 -0800
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 06:58 -0600
                Re: State and the standard ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-08 20:57 +0100
          Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-03 11:25 -0500
            Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-03 15:13 -0600
              Re: State and the standard ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-04 20:55 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 15:17 -0600
                Re: State and the standard ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-05 00:27 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 18:41 -0600
                Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-03-04 20:49 -0500
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-05 02:59 -0600
                Re: State and the standard ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-05 06:58 -0800
      Re: State and the standard ... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-02 14:50 -0800
        Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-03 11:06 -0500
      Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:17 +0000
    Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-02 17:55 +0000
      Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-02 20:24 +0100
        Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:25 +0000
        Re: State and the standard ... Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-03-03 16:27 +0100
          Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-03 15:15 -0600
            Re: State and the standard ... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-03 13:41 -0800
              Re: State and the standard ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-10 00:51 -0800
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-10 04:35 -0500
                Re: State and the standard ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-10 20:56 -0700
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-11 03:47 -0500
                Re: State and the standard ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-13 23:48 -0700
                Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-13 21:01 -1000
                Re: State and the standard ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-14 00:23 -0700
                Re: State and the standard ... Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-03-14 09:18 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-11-21 14:26 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-14 03:34 -0500
                Re: State and the standard ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-14 11:25 +0000
                Re: State and the standard ... Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-03-11 01:51 -0700
                Re: State and the standard ... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-10 03:03 -0700
            Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-07 18:00 +0000
          Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 22:49 +0100
            Re: State and the standard ... "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-03-05 00:18 +0100
              Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 18:44 -0600
          intelligent COMPILE, and smart COMPILE, anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-04 17:52 +0000
            Re: intelligent COMPILE, and smart COMPILE, Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-05 00:49 +0100
              Re: intelligent COMPILE, and smart COMPILE, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-05 10:55 +0000
      Re: State and the standard ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-02 22:22 +0000
  Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-02 17:37 +0000
    Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-03-03 18:08 -0500
      Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 16:26 +0000
  Re: State and the standard ... Michael L Gassanenko <m_l_g3@yahoo.com> - 2013-03-04 23:08 -0800
    Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 10:47 -0500
      Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-05 08:11 -1000
        Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 13:44 -0500
          Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-05 09:26 -1000
            Re: State and the standard ... Michael L Gassanenko <m_l_g3@yahoo.com> - 2013-03-07 04:24 -0800
              Re: State and the standard ... Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2013-03-07 09:42 -0500
              Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-07 08:16 -1000
                Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:14 +0000
                Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-08 08:57 -1000
                Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-09 17:31 +0100
                Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-09 12:28 -0600
                Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-09 21:41 +0100
          Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-06 17:51 -0500
            Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 13:13 -1000
        Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-06 17:51 -0500
          Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 13:12 -1000
      Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-05 18:18 -0600
        Re: State and the standard ... Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-06 08:22 -0800
      Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-06 17:49 -0500
        Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-06 17:56 -0500
        Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-06 18:17 -0500
          Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-08 04:22 -0500

csiph-web