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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #20500
| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: State and the standard ... |
| Date | 2013-03-09 21:41 +0100 |
| Organization | 1&1 Internet AG |
| Message-ID | <khg6pe$qii$1@online.de> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <JJqdnS98lK0ERKXMnZ2dnUVZ_vadnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Mar8.181401@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <gPudnX1JHdEqqafMnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@supernews.com> <khfo4b$fvs$1@online.de> <BeidnRaHMMin4qbMnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@supernews.com> |
Andrew Haley wrote: > Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote: >> Yes, but let's consider reality. If I write a C program for Linux, I >> have two free compilers to use, and two proprietary: clang or gcc for the >> free >> ones, Portland or Intel's C compiler for proprietary. They are pretty >> interchangeable, > > I presume you mean GUN/Linux, not some other OS running on a Linux > kernel (they do exist). And some are quite popular, like Android. The first port of Gforth to Android was using the AndroidTerm as environment, and on that layer, there is very little difference to a GNU/Linux. The libc lacks a few syscall bindings, like ppoll. There's now even an Xserver app (beta) if you want graphics ;-). Libraries have no version numbers, which means you have to change four lines in libtool to make it work on Android. Let's face it: To port Gforth to Android was a piece of cake - as text console Forth. The hard work was to let Gforth actually *use* the features the Android userland provides, and allow it to be installed as app. That's because Android's userland is about as vendor-lock-in as Window's. Maybe even more, because you are supposed to write your app in Java. In a particular Java dialect, where many things are done quite differently... > That is is a very constrained and well- > defined environment, so this hypothetical C program is nobody's idea > of a portable program. It's portable only in the sense that it's not > written in assembly language. If you go further, and say, you write a program for POSIX, you still have a very similar situation. You might need tools like autoconf, since C is not an interactive environment, and therefore adapting the source to what's available doesn't work out of the box, but in Forth, something like autoconf isn't necessary. If you want to know if a word is available, use [defined], if you want to know whether it behaves to a particular spec, test it. Popular options have what we call "Normative Kraft des Faktischen" (Kant, translated as "normative power/force of the factual") in Germany, and gcc's extensions proliferated, because it is/was the de-facto standard compiler for many unixoid systems, clearly beyond GNU/Linux. This sort of things make programs more portable, because the other vendors simply give up insisting on the quirks in their system. -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" http://bernd-paysan.de/
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State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-02-28 11:35 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-03-01 20:46 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-01 19:33 -1000
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-02 03:33 -0600
Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-03-03 18:09 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-03 15:01 -1000
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 03:06 -0600
Re: State and the standard ... Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-03-04 11:38 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-02 11:34 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-03-02 13:47 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-02 14:07 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-02 12:38 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-02 15:50 -0600
Re: State and the standard ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-02 22:11 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 02:51 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:56 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 22:42 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-03 22:02 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-04 00:19 -0800
Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-05 00:14 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 16:34 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-07 18:04 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-08 01:31 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 14:41 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-09 17:04 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-08 02:19 -0800
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 04:25 -0600
Re: State and the standard ... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-08 03:35 -0800
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-08 06:58 -0600
Re: State and the standard ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-08 20:57 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-03 11:25 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-03 15:13 -0600
Re: State and the standard ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-04 20:55 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 15:17 -0600
Re: State and the standard ... Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-05 00:27 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 18:41 -0600
Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-03-04 20:49 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-05 02:59 -0600
Re: State and the standard ... Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-05 06:58 -0800
Re: State and the standard ... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-02 14:50 -0800
Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-03 11:06 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:17 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-02 17:55 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-02 20:24 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-03 14:25 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-03-03 16:27 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-03 15:15 -0600
Re: State and the standard ... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-03 13:41 -0800
Re: State and the standard ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-10 00:51 -0800
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-10 04:35 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-10 20:56 -0700
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-11 03:47 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-13 23:48 -0700
Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-13 21:01 -1000
Re: State and the standard ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-03-14 00:23 -0700
Re: State and the standard ... Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-03-14 09:18 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-11-21 14:26 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-14 03:34 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-14 11:25 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-03-11 01:51 -0700
Re: State and the standard ... Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-10 03:03 -0700
Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-07 18:00 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 22:49 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-03-05 00:18 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-04 18:44 -0600
intelligent COMPILE, and smart COMPILE, anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-04 17:52 +0000
Re: intelligent COMPILE, and smart COMPILE, Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-05 00:49 +0100
Re: intelligent COMPILE, and smart COMPILE, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-05 10:55 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-02 22:22 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-02 17:37 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-03-03 18:08 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 16:26 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... Michael L Gassanenko <m_l_g3@yahoo.com> - 2013-03-04 23:08 -0800
Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 10:47 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-05 08:11 -1000
Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-05 13:44 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-05 09:26 -1000
Re: State and the standard ... Michael L Gassanenko <m_l_g3@yahoo.com> - 2013-03-07 04:24 -0800
Re: State and the standard ... Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2013-03-07 09:42 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-07 08:16 -1000
Re: State and the standard ... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-08 17:14 +0000
Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-08 08:57 -1000
Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-09 17:31 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-09 12:28 -0600
Re: State and the standard ... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-09 21:41 +0100
Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-06 17:51 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 13:13 -1000
Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-06 17:51 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-06 13:12 -1000
Re: State and the standard ... Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-05 18:18 -0600
Re: State and the standard ... Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-06 08:22 -0800
Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-06 17:49 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-06 17:56 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2013-03-06 18:17 -0500
Re: State and the standard ... "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-08 04:22 -0500
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