Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB

From	Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB
Date	2013-01-18 11:13 -0800
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<kfny5fq8fta.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <0.0bf426eba4b1a107f6a2.20130115213818GMT.87libuazzp.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <kfnhamhblwo.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> <0.ee0ca3b7f0127d4ae325.20130116153452GMT.87wqvd9m5f.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <kfnsj619e49.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> <kd6tt1$l5$1@speranza.aioe.org>

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glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes:

> Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> [snip]
>
>> and implementations aren't allowed to assume something (like
>> what side effects are caused by some volatile access) that the
>> Standard deems outside of what they know.
>
> This is the one I don't agree with.  An implementation might, for
> example, and as an extension, allow access to I/O registers.  The
> implementation might, then, document that I/O registers should be
> declared volatile, and might even document that no other kinds of
> volatile data are supported.

Implementations don't get to make that choice.  The volatile
keyword is allowed in declaring/defining any variable, and also
in type names (eg, casts or compound literals).  Any expression
doing an access through a volatile-qualified lvalue is obliged to
perform that access under the rules that the Standard gives for
the semantics of such accesses.  Implementations don't get to
choose which volatile-qualified accesses are "supported" and
which ones aren't -- the Standard obliges them to perform them
all, and without making any assumptions about what side effects
might take place as a result.

>> What constitutes an access to a volatile object is
>> implementation defined, but what happens when a volatile
>> access occurs is not, and cannot be,
>
> Why can't the implementation define exactly what types of
> volatile access it allows?

Because it isn't consistent with the requirements that all
accesses be performed, and volatile-qualified accesses be
performed according to how the Standard describes the semantics
for such accesses.

>> defined by an implementation, because the Standard specifically
>> allows side effects unknown to the implementation to take place,
>> and implementations are obliged to proceed under that assumption.
>
> OK, then, the implementation can, as an extension to the standard,
> define which types of volatile access it allow and which ones it
> doesn't.  [snip]

That simply isn't consistent with what the Standard requires.
Implementations must carry out volatile-qualified accesses
according to the requireed semantics;  they don't get to choose
which of those might be "allowed" and which aren't.  It's like
saying an implementation could define an extension where array
indexing only works for even index values -- it cannot, because
such an implementation fails to meet the requirements that the
Standard otherwise imposes.

Thread

Pointer Arithmetic & UB Edward Rutherford <edward.p.rutherford79@REMOVETHIS.gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 17:14 +0000
  Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB "christian.bau" <christian.bau@cbau.wanadoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-10 09:35 -0800
  Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-10 12:55 -0500
    Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-10 13:25 -0500
      Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB falk@rahul.net (Edward A. Falk) - 2012-12-11 00:46 +0000
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-10 21:28 -0500
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-12 14:36 -0500
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-12 20:35 +0000
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-12 15:57 -0500
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-12 16:02 -0500
              Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-12 16:13 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-12 21:18 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-12 22:42 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-17 12:04 +0200
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-17 08:47 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-12-17 14:58 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-17 10:59 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-12-17 17:26 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-12-17 19:33 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-20 11:00 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-20 10:03 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-12-20 22:02 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-21 13:09 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-21 22:40 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-21 23:39 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-22 06:50 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-22 00:15 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-22 10:34 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-22 09:32 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-23 09:38 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-23 09:55 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-26 13:35 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-27 09:03 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-27 21:31 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-12-28 01:55 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-29 13:43 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-12-28 01:39 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-28 11:31 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-12-28 08:47 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-29 17:45 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-30 04:06 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-02 10:08 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-26 13:29 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-27 07:55 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-27 08:01 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-27 21:10 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-29 18:03 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-12-23 03:48 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-23 10:22 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-12-27 10:34 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-27 10:16 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2013-01-10 17:26 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-12 12:38 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-12 20:50 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-13 13:07 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-13 22:11 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-14 11:11 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2013-01-12 18:32 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2013-01-13 00:34 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 16:40 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2013-01-14 00:01 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 19:20 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2013-01-14 01:03 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 20:41 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2013-01-14 03:19 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 23:36 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 23:43 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2013-01-14 13:20 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2013-01-14 20:02 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2013-01-15 21:20 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-14 10:23 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2013-01-15 10:53 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-15 22:39 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2013-01-15 22:28 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-15 23:35 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2013-01-16 23:38 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-18 09:37 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-14 10:29 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2013-01-15 21:38 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-15 23:57 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2013-01-16 15:34 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2013-01-16 11:15 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-16 10:28 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-16 19:09 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2013-01-16 23:26 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-18 10:08 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2013-01-18 11:33 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-18 14:00 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2013-01-19 09:10 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-20 13:35 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2013-01-20 20:15 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2013-01-20 21:05 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-21 09:43 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-18 11:13 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-18 20:59 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2013-01-18 16:24 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-19 00:17 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-19 11:22 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-20 14:51 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-21 00:07 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-21 10:05 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-21 20:19 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2013-01-21 23:20 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2013-01-18 17:48 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2013-01-18 13:13 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-20 12:21 -0600
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-20 13:40 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-20 13:32 -0600
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-20 14:58 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-20 21:54 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Lanarcam <lanarcam1@yahoo.fr> - 2012-12-20 19:49 +0100
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-21 02:38 +0200
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-21 14:33 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 03:18 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-21 13:16 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 17:57 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-21 23:52 +0000
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-12-21 19:47 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-21 22:54 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-12-22 03:31 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-22 09:16 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-12-24 04:23 -0500
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-27 11:07 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-17 02:33 -0800
                Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-17 02:18 -0800
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2012-12-11 11:36 +0100
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB "christian.bau" <christian.bau@cbau.wanadoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-11 10:00 -0800
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-17 12:11 +0200
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2012-12-11 15:27 -0500
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-11 21:09 +0000
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-12 14:30 -0500
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-12-12 11:42 -0800
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-12 17:12 -0500
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-12-17 12:16 +0200
  Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Prathamesh Kulkarni <bilbotheelffriend@gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 12:04 -0800
    Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-10 15:29 -0500
      Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Prathamesh Kulkarni <bilbotheelffriend@gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 12:44 -0800
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Prathamesh Kulkarni <bilbotheelffriend@gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 12:47 -0800
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-12-10 16:02 -0500
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Prathamesh Kulkarni <bilbotheelffriend@gmail.com> - 2012-12-10 13:08 -0800
              Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-12 14:26 -0500
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Greg Martin <greg@softsprocket.com> - 2012-12-10 14:55 -0800
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Sjouke Burry <s@b> - 2012-12-10 21:18 +0000
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB falk@rahul.net (Edward A. Falk) - 2012-12-11 00:48 +0000
      Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-10 21:01 +0000
      Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-12-12 14:24 -0500
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-12 14:34 -0600
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-12 20:45 +0000
          Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-12 15:29 -0600
            Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-12-13 02:02 +0000
        Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-12-17 05:57 -0800
    Re: Pointer Arithmetic & UB pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2012-12-10 20:20 -0500

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