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Re: Forth programming style...

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On 8/1/15 9:04 PM, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 06:14:25 -0400, Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I want to say something about phrases. I believe the concept of
>> phrases exist in Forth, much more than other programming languages.
>
> ?
>
> Do you mean the language is more like English than algebra? ...
>
>> I believe that very experienced Forth programmers can analyse code
>> and recognise common phrases and understand what they are doing at
>> an almost unconcious level, similar to an epxerienced music reader
>> reading a stave. I believe Elizabeth can do this. I, alas, cannot.
>> I have to read each word and conciously compute what is happening.
>> I have to execute the code in my head, word by word. I believe
>> Elizabeth and some of the others here (Stephen, Anton, Bernd,
>> Hugh) do not. They understand it at a more unconcious, instinctual
>> level. Experience really pays off in Forth.
>>
>
> Well, I've only coded my Forth system in Forth, which Ms. Rather
> dismisses as mostly non-standard Forth coding.  The solutions for
> some of the system words are rather abstruse.  It's unlikely that
> I would do what they do if I ever coded a "normal" Forth application.
> It'd be too cryptic or wouldn't "flow" easily or be elegant or
> fast, etc.

I have no idea what this is trying to say. FORTH, Inc's Forth systems 
are all coded in Forth, with the exception of key primitives which we 
write using Forth assembler because they need to be fast. With the 
advent of optimizing compilers, these become fewer and fewer.

> When coding in C, the C I use today is very minimal
> compared to that which I used years ago.  Even then, I was far
>   from fully using C's functionality.  I.e., most of the C language
> isn't really needed, especially almost all of the C library.  It's
> mostly decoration or work reduction for the lazy or stupid ...

I can't comment on C style :-)

> So, from my perspective, programming is more like solving a jigsaw
> puzzle or geometry problem or using Lego's to construct something
> or playing Tetris slowly.  You have a large bunch of pieces that
> can be put together or used in different ways to solve your problem.
> You attempt your basic solution or design in your head first to
> reject sure failures, then you move to implement it in physical
> reality.  It doesn't have to work, at first.  It's just the initial
> outline of your solution.  If I had never solved a Rubik's cube,
> I might view Forth as frustrating as solving a Rubik's the first
> time.  However, having solved Rubik's cube many times (without
> cheating or learning any moves from books), I know there are only
> a small handful of different actual combinations.  With a programming
> language, there can be a nearly infinite number of solutions.  So,
> over time, I moved away from recommended C coding styles and techniques
> and developed the code techniques which work best for me.  Of course,
> you need to solve a wide range of problems in different manners,
> sometimes repeatedly, to decide what works and what doesn't.

I'm sure one's coding style evolves in any language. The important thing 
is to keep the objectives in mind. IMO the important objectives are 
efficiency and clarity.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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Forth programming style... Mux <Yvo.Zoer@gmail.com> - 2015-07-21 15:40 -0700
  Re: Forth programming style... Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2015-07-21 17:28 -0700
    Re: Forth programming style... Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2015-07-21 17:39 -0700
      Re: Forth programming style... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-07-22 00:48 -0700
        Re: Forth programming style... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-21 22:25 -1000
          Re: Forth programming style... onewingedshark@gmail.com - 2015-07-22 15:13 -0700
            Re: Forth programming style... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-22 13:24 -1000
            Re: Forth programming style... stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-07-23 08:28 +0000
        Re: Forth programming style... Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-22 02:38 -0700
          Re: Forth programming style... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-07-22 03:14 -0700
            Re: Forth programming style... humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2015-07-22 03:45 -0700
              Re: Forth programming style... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-22 08:37 -1000
              Re: Forth programming style... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-22 12:51 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-22 10:14 -1000
                Re: Forth programming style... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-23 06:23 +0000
                Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 16:59 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 20:18 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-07-28 21:06 +1000
                Re: Forth programming style... "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-28 12:38 +0100
            Re: Forth programming style... "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-07-23 00:02 +1000
            Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-22 21:21 -0700
              Re: Forth programming style... "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-23 09:05 +0000
                Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 16:47 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 01:24 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-07-24 03:48 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-24 18:15 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-08-01 13:21 +1000
            Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-22 21:48 -0700
            Re: Forth programming style... Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-22 22:28 -0700
              Re: Forth programming style... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-02 00:43 +0200
            Re: Forth programming style... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-02 00:22 +0200
              Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-01 16:41 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-01 22:01 -0400
              Re: Forth programming style... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-02 05:50 +0000
                Re: Forth programming style... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-02 16:33 +0200
            Re: Forth programming style... "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-01 22:04 -0400
              Re: Forth programming style... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-08-02 08:54 -0500
                Re: Forth programming style... "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-03 04:51 -0400
                Re: Forth programming style... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-08-03 17:36 -0500
        Re: Forth programming style... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-22 10:16 +0000
      Re: Forth programming style... mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-22 10:02 -0700
    Re: Forth programming style... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-22 10:09 +0000
  Re: Forth programming style... Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2015-07-22 12:16 +0100
    Re: Forth programming style... Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-22 07:59 -0700
  Re: Forth programming style... glidedog@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 04:24 -0700
  Re: Forth programming style... "Ala'a Alawi" <amalawi@gmail.com> - 2015-07-23 19:32 -0700
    Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 21:33 -0700
      Re: Forth programming style... borota@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 22:09 -0700
        Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 22:57 -0700
        Re: Forth programming style... "Ala'a Alawi" <amalawi@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 09:26 -0700
      Re: Forth programming style... "Ala'a Alawi" <amalawi@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 09:26 -0700

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