Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.forth > #41056

Re: Forth programming style...

Show all headers | View raw

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 06:14:25 -0400, Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> wrote:

> I want to say something about phrases. I believe the concept of
> phrases exist in Forth, much more than other programming languages.

?

Do you mean the language is more like English than algebra? ...

> I believe that very experienced Forth programmers can analyse code
> and recognise common phrases and understand what they are doing at
> an almost unconcious level, similar to an epxerienced music reader
> reading a stave. I believe Elizabeth can do this. I, alas, cannot.
> I have to read each word and conciously compute what is happening.
> I have to execute the code in my head, word by word. I believe
> Elizabeth and some of the others here (Stephen, Anton, Bernd,
> Hugh) do not. They understand it at a more unconcious, instinctual
> level. Experience really pays off in Forth.
>

Well, I've only coded my Forth system in Forth, which Ms. Rather
dismisses as mostly non-standard Forth coding.  The solutions for
some of the system words are rather abstruse.  It's unlikely that
I would do what they do if I ever coded a "normal" Forth application.
It'd be too cryptic or wouldn't "flow" easily or be elegant or
fast, etc.  When coding in C, the C I use today is very minimal
compared to that which I used years ago.  Even then, I was far
  from fully using C's functionality.  I.e., most of the C language
isn't really needed, especially almost all of the C library.  It's
mostly decoration or work reduction for the lazy or stupid ...

So, from my perspective, programming is more like solving a jigsaw
puzzle or geometry problem or using Lego's to construct something
or playing Tetris slowly.  You have a large bunch of pieces that
can be put together or used in different ways to solve your problem.
You attempt your basic solution or design in your head first to
reject sure failures, then you move to implement it in physical
reality.  It doesn't have to work, at first.  It's just the initial
outline of your solution.  If I had never solved a Rubik's cube,
I might view Forth as frustrating as solving a Rubik's the first
time.  However, having solved Rubik's cube many times (without
cheating or learning any moves from books), I know there are only
a small handful of different actual combinations.  With a programming
language, there can be a nearly infinite number of solutions.  So,
over time, I moved away from recommended C coding styles and techniques
and developed the code techniques which work best for me.  Of course,
you need to solve a wide range of problems in different manners,
sometimes repeatedly, to decide what works and what doesn't.


Rod Pemberton

-- 
Scientists now say we'll experience a mini-ice in 2030.
So, I guess we need more global warming today ...

Back to comp.lang.forth | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Forth programming style... Mux <Yvo.Zoer@gmail.com> - 2015-07-21 15:40 -0700
  Re: Forth programming style... Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2015-07-21 17:28 -0700
    Re: Forth programming style... Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2015-07-21 17:39 -0700
      Re: Forth programming style... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-07-22 00:48 -0700
        Re: Forth programming style... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-21 22:25 -1000
          Re: Forth programming style... onewingedshark@gmail.com - 2015-07-22 15:13 -0700
            Re: Forth programming style... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-22 13:24 -1000
            Re: Forth programming style... stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-07-23 08:28 +0000
        Re: Forth programming style... Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-22 02:38 -0700
          Re: Forth programming style... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-07-22 03:14 -0700
            Re: Forth programming style... humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2015-07-22 03:45 -0700
              Re: Forth programming style... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-22 08:37 -1000
              Re: Forth programming style... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-22 12:51 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-07-22 10:14 -1000
                Re: Forth programming style... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-23 06:23 +0000
                Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 16:59 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 20:18 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-07-28 21:06 +1000
                Re: Forth programming style... "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-07-28 12:38 +0100
            Re: Forth programming style... "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-07-23 00:02 +1000
            Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-22 21:21 -0700
              Re: Forth programming style... "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-23 09:05 +0000
                Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 16:47 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 01:24 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-07-24 03:48 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-07-24 18:15 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-08-01 13:21 +1000
            Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-22 21:48 -0700
            Re: Forth programming style... Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-22 22:28 -0700
              Re: Forth programming style... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-02 00:43 +0200
            Re: Forth programming style... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-02 00:22 +0200
              Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-01 16:41 -0700
                Re: Forth programming style... "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-01 22:01 -0400
              Re: Forth programming style... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-02 05:50 +0000
                Re: Forth programming style... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-02 16:33 +0200
            Re: Forth programming style... "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-01 22:04 -0400
              Re: Forth programming style... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-08-02 08:54 -0500
                Re: Forth programming style... "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-03 04:51 -0400
                Re: Forth programming style... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-08-03 17:36 -0500
        Re: Forth programming style... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-22 10:16 +0000
      Re: Forth programming style... mhx@iae.nl - 2015-07-22 10:02 -0700
    Re: Forth programming style... anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-07-22 10:09 +0000
  Re: Forth programming style... Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2015-07-22 12:16 +0100
    Re: Forth programming style... Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-07-22 07:59 -0700
  Re: Forth programming style... glidedog@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 04:24 -0700
  Re: Forth programming style... "Ala'a Alawi" <amalawi@gmail.com> - 2015-07-23 19:32 -0700
    Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 21:33 -0700
      Re: Forth programming style... borota@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 22:09 -0700
        Re: Forth programming style... hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-07-23 22:57 -0700
        Re: Forth programming style... "Ala'a Alawi" <amalawi@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 09:26 -0700
      Re: Forth programming style... "Ala'a Alawi" <amalawi@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 09:26 -0700

csiph-web