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| From | Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | aus.cars, aus.science |
| Subject | Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire |
| Date | 2023-03-09 23:30 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <k6u1s1FflriU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (8 earlier) <tub2nl$1400p$4@dont-email.me> <k6shd2F7r3qU6@mid.individual.net> <tubc2i$15fm8$2@dont-email.me> <k6t1kbFas8pU3@mid.individual.net> <tuboe8$1a5ju$1@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 9/3/2023 3:48 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/03/2023 2:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/03/2023 12:17 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> **That reliance would be a fatal mistake on our part.
>>>
>>> I don't think so. That's why we have military alliances in the first
>>> place :)
>>>
>>>> Should that fucking idiot, Trump, be elected as the next POTUS, we
>>>> will be left on our own. DeSantis is an unknown factor, but you can
>>>> bet he would be happy to sacrifice Australia for votes. Australia
>>>> MUST be able to be self-sufficient in both defence and essential
>>>> commodities.
>>>
>>> Australia will *never* be self sufficient at anything, as we don't
>>> have the population or the wealth to be so. We are a small nation on
>>> a very large island.
>>
>> **Bullshit.
>
> Really? We're a country that is geographically almost the same size as
> mainland USA, with around 1/13th of the population and an economy around
> 1/20th of the US. If you don't consider that to be "small" then I'm
> fucked if I know how you gauge sizes.
> > As others have stated, we need to make ourselves to be like
>> a porcupine, in a defensive sense. That would likely mean hosting
>> nukes on our soil on in subs. Long range missiles, sea mines, drones
>> and drone subs should all be considered to ensure that China refrains
>> from attacking or interfering with our trade.
>
> That is a lovely sentiment Trev, and it would be nice. But we simply do
> not have the manpower or the money to be able to do that. Not even close.
>
> How much do you reckon it would cost us to man ourselves with enough
> weapons of mass destruction to make the Chinese think twice about
> invading us? The Chinese sound like they're ready to take on the
> Americans over Taiwan, and if they're not perturbed about the threat of
> American military might I can't see *anything* we could ever do here
> that would make them change their minds if they ever saw fit to invade us.
>
>> We CANNOT rely on the US or anyone else. To remind you of WWII, the US
>> was quite prepared to sacrifice Australia to the Japanese, should it
>> have been required. The US will do so again.
>
> Yeah, I don't think so.
>
> You must study different historical sources than I have, as during WWII
> the Americans considered Australia to be far too valuable an outpost in
> the Pacific region for it to ever fall into Japanese hands, which is why
> they sent their fleet to the Coral Sea to defeat the Japanese amphibious
> invasion of Port Moresby.
>
> From mid 1942 onwards, Australia was the largest Pacific base the US
> had, and there was no way they were ever going to surrender it :)
>>> As far as the Americans are concerned, I believe Trump's day in the
>>> sun has passed. He's too much of a liability now for the Republican
>>> Party to stand him as a candidate for a second term, and I think
>>> "Sleepy Joe's" days are also numbered. DeSantis will most likely be
>>> the next US President, and while he *is* a relative unknown he
>>> doesn't appear to be anywhere near as hardcore right as Trump is, or
>>> have the same isolationist views.
>>
>> **DeSantis has been described as 'Trump with a brain'. Which makes him
>> potentially far more dangerous. DeSantis has no care for Australia. We
>> need to do far more to enhance our defences and our critical
>> infrastructure. It has recently been stated that Xi intends to take
>> Taiwan in 2027. We have FOUR years to get our shit together.
>
> Stated by who?
>
> Take such comments with a massive grain of salt. For the last 25 years
> the American State Department has been predicting that Indonesia will
> invade Australia "within 10 years". Guess what? In that 25 years they've
> been wrong twice, and are well on their way to making it a hat-trick.
>
> *IF* the Chinese *were* ever going to invade us, do you honestly think
> they'd throw out a projected date so we had time to prepare? :)
>
>>> The other point to consider is that regardless of whomever is in
>>> office in the White house, Australia has far too much value to the
>>> Americans both in terms of investment and strategic importance for
>>> them to sit idly by and see it over run by a hostile country.
>>
>> **Nonsense. Americans don't know where Australia is and, apart from
>> our baristas, they don't care about Australians. Which, of course,
>> means that their politicians don't care either.
>
> Go back and read what I said a second time and see if it sinks in.
> America has far too much strategic investment in this country for it to
> ever be lost to the Chinese, or anyone else for that matter. The average
> American Joe may not give a flying fuck about us, and the average US
> politician may not either. But the joint chiefs, heads of the various
> intelligence agencies and the industrial military complex in general
> will all recognise the danger of losing this cornerstone of the South
> Pacific to the enemy.
>
>> Consider Ukraine: Despite the commitment and bravery of the Ukrainian
>> people, the US has not committed a single military person to fight in
>> Ukraine. The US is (rightly) concerned of what retaliation Russia
>> might unleash on the US if they did. In a few years, China will be a
>> MUCH bigger worry.
>
> America, or anyone else for that matter, isn't sticking their nose into
> the Ukrainian affair because it's mostly considered to be a civil war.
You have no clue. The US and NATO have realised that Russia sees its war
in Ukraine as a matter of *existential* survival - and rest assured
Russia will soon no longer exist as a functional country - with or
without the war. The demographics of Russia will see to that. The
Russians and the Ukrainians are the same race of people - Slavs. It's
way more complex than a civil war. Ukraine was a buffer zone, among
others, that inhibited invasion of mother Russia by the invaders from
Europe - ie. Napoleon, Hitler. Russia wants its buffer zones back and,
with it, the Soviet Union.
The US and NATO looked at how the Russians fared on the first few days
of the war back in February 2022 and saw that Russia could no longer
fight a conventional war - then realised that if the US and NATO put
troops on the ground, Russia would be backed into a corner and would
bring out the heaviest shit they have at hand - and that would be nukes.
Desperate countries do that you know. So Ukraine has to fight this war
on the ground themselves with generally only logistics and MI support -
no US or NATO boots on the ground. So far so good.
> Fighting between the Ukrainians and Russians has been going on for
> decades, and while it has the potential to get ugly if foreign forces
Mainly from 2011 and 2014 when Russia no longer obeyed treaties it
signed between themselves and Ukraine.
> *do* put boots on the ground against the Russians, the Americans (and
> others) are not exactly sitting idly by and doing nothing either.
>
> The US is funding the Ukrainians with cash and military equipment on a
> *massive* scale, and while the Russians may not be happy about that
> they're not doing too much complaining because that's exactly what
> *they* were doing during the Vietnam war. The Russians are getting their
> own back and they have to suck that up. They're also well aware that
> given the horrendous shit-show they've made of demonstrating how
> incapable their military might is against the Ukrainians, they would be
> doing all they can to avoid a direct military confrontation with the
> Americans who would no doubt kick the absolute fucking snot out of them
> on the battlefield.
The US knows this, as does NATO, and it also knows nukes would be
instantly on the table.
>
> The threat from Russia is not in the form of a protracted military
> engagement, which they would no doubt unquestionably lose, but from a
> Nuclear strike. The Americans would be well aware of this, which is why
> I suspect that they have the bulk of their ballistic missile submarine
> fleet on station within striking range of every Russian target of
> importance as we speak.
>
> The Chinese situation is a different ball game. They know that a move
> against Taiwan will involve a direct confrontation with the US, and
> possibly the UK, and New Zealand, and us.
>
>>> America is making waves about China's desires to control Taiwan just
>>> so they're not held to ransom by the Chinese having control over the
>>> world's chip market. In light of that, I can't really see them doing
>>> nothing and letting the Chinese take over one of the world's largest
>>> sources of coal, aluminium, uranium, gold or just about anything else :)
>>
>> **There is NOTHING in Australia that the US can't find anywhere else.
>> Except decent coffee. They ain't gonna defend their coffee habit.
>
> Pine Gap is a pretty important part of America's overall intelligence
> gathering ability, and I don't expect they'd be all that keen to see it
> fall into Chinese hands :)
>
>>> Trump won't be the next US President, so it's a non issue.
>>
>> **Trump PROBABLY won't be the next POTUS. However, never understimate
>> the stupidity of the American public. They voted for Reagan, Dubya and
>> Trump. That speaks volumes for just how dumb Americans are.
>
> The American public can be as stupid as rocks, and a great many are, but
> they can't vote for someone who's not an official candidate. I don't
> believe Trump will be unless he stands as an independent.
>
--
Xeno
Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
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a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2023-03-08 03:02 +0100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2023-03-08 13:40 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-08 15:22 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2023-03-08 16:00 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2023-03-08 17:47 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2023-03-09 07:50 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-09 08:11 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2023-03-09 08:14 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2023-03-09 07:21 +1000
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2023-03-09 08:41 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-09 09:37 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2023-03-09 09:43 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-09 12:17 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2023-03-09 14:20 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-09 15:48 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2023-03-09 23:30 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire "jonz@ nothere.com" <johnhhhinton7@gmail.com> - 2023-03-08 20:18 -0800
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2023-03-09 10:56 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2023-03-09 11:18 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-09 12:40 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2023-03-09 13:30 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-09 15:02 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2023-03-09 17:01 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire "jonz@ nothere.com" <johnhhhinton7@gmail.com> - 2023-03-08 20:06 -0800
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-09 09:34 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-09 09:33 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2023-03-09 09:47 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-09 12:01 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2023-03-09 14:07 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-09 15:59 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Keithr0 <nothing.to.see@here.com.au> - 2023-03-09 16:27 +1000
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-09 20:19 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2023-03-09 22:59 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-10 12:42 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2023-03-10 13:53 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-10 14:32 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2023-03-09 10:48 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire alvey <Patty.O.Furniture@Coast.org> - 2023-03-08 23:58 +0000
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2023-03-09 12:46 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2023-03-08 16:08 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire "jonz@ nothere.com" <johnhhhinton7@gmail.com> - 2023-03-07 22:11 -0800
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2023-03-08 20:12 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2023-03-08 19:40 +1000
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2023-03-09 09:02 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2023-03-09 11:08 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2023-03-09 11:23 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> - 2023-03-09 12:15 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> - 2023-03-09 13:58 +1100
Re: a Tesla is a death-trap in a California wildfire Noddy <me@home.com> - 2023-03-09 12:18 +1100
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