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| From | pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: C scope and struct definitions |
| Date | 2012-06-26 22:18 +0000 |
| Organization | Aioe.org NNTP Server |
| Message-ID | <jsdcft$tga$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink) |
| References | <mYGdnXsGt41dNnnSnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@bestweb.net> <Nv6dnf0QUclO4HXSnZ2dnUVZ_vadnZ2d@bestweb.net> <jsd4qv$bap$1@speranza.aioe.org> <jsdbb6$t43$1@dont-email.me> |
In article <jsdbb6$t43$1@dont-email.me>,
Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote:
>On 6/26/2012 4:08 PM, Alan Curry wrote:
>>
>> Scope is the boundary of a variable's existence at compile time.
>
> Ah. This is obviously some strange usage of the word "scope"
>that I hadn't previously been aware of. More to the point, it's a
It's an explanation of the concept, in my own words, deliberately chosen to
not look like standardese. I did that because I believe if you can't explain
something in your own words, you don't really understand it.
>usage not found in section 6.2.1 of the Standard, which defines what
>the word means in C. One of the first things you'll notice about
>that section is that the title is not "Scopes of variables" but
>"Scopes of identifiers." Scope is not a property of variables, but
>a property of identifiers. (In fact, the word "variable" does not
>appear even once in that section.)
The more you have to rely on word-for-word quotations from an authoritative
source, the less conceptual understanding you demonstrate.
A variable is a name, a value, an address, or some combination of those
possibilities, depending on when you look at it. When you're writing the code
(as opposed to compiling and running it), the variable is the name. If you
saw something like
void foo(int i)
{
/*something*/
}
int bar(void)
{
return i;
}
Wouldn't you think it's reasonable to say that the reason bar() won't compile
is that the variable i doesn't exist there? If you don't accept that wording,
then you're too much of a language lawyer to ever make sense of the way real
programmers talk.
>
>> Lifetime is
>> the boundary of a variable's existence at runtime. They're basically the same
>> thing in different dimensions (temporal at runtime, spatial at compile time).
>> And for local variables, they both default to the block enclosing the
>> declaration. At compile time, the variable can be referenced (i.e. its name
>> can be used) while that block is being parsed. At runtime, the variable can
>> be referenced (i.e. its value can be loaded from memory) while that block is
>> active.
>
> Well, no. Whenever an auto variable's identifier is in scope,
>that identifier exists, yes. But the opposite does not hold: Even
>while the variable exists, its identifier can be out of scope. (I
>can think of three ways for this to happen; there may be others.)
That's a fun puzzle. Shadowing of course, which is a "don't do that".
Preprocessor effects ruled out, I assume. Maybe a variant of shadowing in
which typedef is used in an inner block.
--
Alan Curry
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C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-22 13:30 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-22 14:02 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-22 22:40 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-06-22 15:47 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-22 20:32 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-23 22:06 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-23 16:18 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-25 10:19 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-25 11:51 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-23 19:54 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-24 00:56 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-23 21:48 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-24 06:03 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-06-25 00:05 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-23 19:25 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-24 05:40 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-06-24 10:47 +0200
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-24 11:00 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-25 03:53 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-25 01:14 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-24 22:38 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-25 11:03 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-26 20:08 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-06-26 23:21 +0200
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-26 21:47 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-26 18:05 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-26 16:45 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-06-27 08:26 +0200
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-27 00:01 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-27 06:57 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-27 15:00 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-27 14:48 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-27 16:14 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-29 09:36 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-27 16:27 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-27 12:03 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-27 12:11 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-27 15:53 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-26 17:59 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-26 22:18 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-26 18:33 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-26 17:22 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-27 00:03 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-27 14:13 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-27 12:15 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-29 09:43 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-29 11:59 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-01 18:32 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-27 20:59 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-28 16:42 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-23 20:57 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-23 22:11 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-23 22:51 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2012-06-25 17:31 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-25 14:46 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-25 14:43 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-06-26 13:44 +0200
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-23 20:07 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-06-24 10:56 +0200
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-24 08:29 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-24 10:26 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-25 10:50 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-24 09:23 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-25 11:17 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-25 14:22 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-25 11:11 -0400
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