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| From | pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: C scope and struct definitions |
| Date | 2012-06-24 05:40 +0000 |
| Organization | Aioe.org NNTP Server |
| Message-ID | <js698k$7rm$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink) |
| References | <mYGdnXsGt41dNnnSnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@bestweb.net> <js5l0m$64l$1@dont-email.me> <js5oki$9m3$1@speranza.aioe.org> <lny5nd78em.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> |
In article <lny5nd78em.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>, Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote: >pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) writes: > >> Anyway, putting type names and variable names into a single category and >> calling them "identifiers" is a false generalization. It works at the >> technical level for the compiler implementor I guess, but besides that what's >> the reason for lumping them together and insisting that they behave the same? >> If you can't explain it without the word "identifier" then there is no >> reason, it's just a thought process that's being misled by a bit of escaped >> compiler-writer's jargon. > >I'd say it's a perfectly valid generalization. They *are* both >identifiers, and they follow the same scope rules. They "are" both identifiers because the word "identifier" has been defined that way. This is a circular argument. It doesn't prove that they belong together in a class, just that they have been forced into one and an awkward name has been slapped on it. > >You advocate treating type names as a special case with different scope >rules than other identifiers. That's a valid preference, but not one >that I share -- and not one that's consistent with C as it's currently >defined. More like no scope rules at all. Just a global table of types. (Global within a single run of the compiler). Any time a new struct tag is seen, just add it to the table and leave it there until the compiler exits. A type has an existence inherently outside of any function because types are more fundamental than functions. >> >> The same could be said for a function that's only called by one other >> function. Should we have nested functions then? > >Many languages do have nested functions. What tends to make them >complicated is the need to define rules for accessing objects defined >in an outer function. I wouldn't strongly object to adding nested >functions to C (and gcc supports them as an extension), but I don't >think they're all that important; we've gotten along without them >for a very long time. That complication (closures) is a good reason to want nested functions. It can be emulated without help from the compiler, but not easily. What's the corresponding reason for wanting struct definitions inside a function? > >[...] > >> Variable scopes make sense because the object named by the variable doesn't >> exist until the function is called. A type isn't an object. > >Are you conflating scope and lifetime? > Are you seriously saying they aren't (or shouldn't be) closely tied together? -- Alan Curry
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C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-22 13:30 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-22 14:02 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-22 22:40 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-06-22 15:47 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-22 20:32 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-23 22:06 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-23 16:18 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-25 10:19 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-25 11:51 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-23 19:54 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-24 00:56 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-23 21:48 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-24 06:03 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-06-25 00:05 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-23 19:25 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-24 05:40 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-06-24 10:47 +0200
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-24 11:00 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-25 03:53 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-25 01:14 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-24 22:38 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-25 11:03 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-26 20:08 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-06-26 23:21 +0200
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-26 21:47 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-26 18:05 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-26 16:45 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-06-27 08:26 +0200
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-27 00:01 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-27 06:57 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-27 15:00 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-27 14:48 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-27 16:14 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-29 09:36 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-27 16:27 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-27 12:03 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-27 12:11 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-27 15:53 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-26 17:59 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-26 22:18 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-26 18:33 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-26 17:22 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-27 00:03 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-27 14:13 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-27 12:15 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-29 09:43 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-29 11:59 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-07-01 18:32 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-06-27 20:59 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-28 16:42 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-23 20:57 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-06-23 22:11 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-23 22:51 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2012-06-25 17:31 +0000
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-25 14:46 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-25 14:43 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-06-26 13:44 +0200
Re: C scope and struct definitions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-06-23 20:07 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-06-24 10:56 +0200
Re: C scope and struct definitions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-06-24 08:29 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-24 10:26 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-25 10:50 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-24 09:23 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-25 11:17 -0400
Re: C scope and struct definitions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-06-25 14:22 -0700
Re: C scope and struct definitions Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-06-25 11:11 -0400
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