Re: In how many ways should this fail?

From	"BartC" <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: In how many ways should this fail?
Date	2012-02-01 11:57 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<jgb9d3$rsl$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<87hazdcikg.fsf@huddi.jernurt.dk><chine.bleu-61D2CA.08302730012012@news.eternal-september.org><jg6hcq$3mc$1@dont-email.me> <4F26D3FE.4010606@verizon.net><jg6mrf$6it$1@dont-email.me> <4F26E9F6.3020101@verizon.net><jg6r4h$1fh$1@dont-email.me><0.d2a24acbe4d003562f6e.20120130214854GMT.8739awsvy1.fsf@bsb.me.uk><jg8no4$9de$1@dont-email.me><0.e5f0e9b80e794db35f9e.20120131135739GMT.87fwewq8j0.fsf@bsb.me.uk><jg900f$o5n$1@dont-email.me> <lnmx93w76y.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>

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"Keith Thompson" <kst-u@mib.org> wrote in message
news:lnmx93w76y.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org...
> "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> "Ben Bacarisse" <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote in message
>> news:0.e5f0e9b80e794db35f9e.20120131135739GMT.87fwewq8j0.fsf@bsb.me.uk...
>>> "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>
>>>> (I would write the formal syntax as just:
>>>>
>>>> expr ? expr : expr
>>
>>> Your example says less.  Until you say how you would convey all the
>>> information conveyed by C's grammar, there is no fair comparison.
>>
>> If it had to exactly model the way C does it, that might be true.
>
> And that's exactly what the C standard has to do.
>
>>                                                                   But I
>> think C has too many restrictions. Also it's not really that readable
>> unless
>> accompanied by explanatory notes. In that case you might as well express
>> it
>> less formally.
>
> Are you talking about C, or about some hypothetical other language with
> a grammar more to your liking?  If the former, you're mistaken.  If the
> latter, why are you discussing it here?
>
> Can you at least make it clear what you're talking about?

I'm talking about C. But also about the fact that, for a supposedly simple
language, it's grammar is complex (13 or 14 levels to define an expression
for example). And far from making things unambiguous, sometimes has the
opposite effect! (See the posts about ?: followed by an assignment).

To put it another way, if I was writing a C-syntax parser, I wouldn't bother
trying to use the grammar. But I would probably have to spend considerable
time 'hobbling' the syntax if I wanted it to be 100% compatible with 
standard C. (Not allowing ?: constructs as lvalues for example.)

BTW any C compilers with extensions, probably cannot use the grammar as
given anyway.

-- 
Bartc

Thread

In how many ways should this fail? Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2012-01-30 16:32 +0100
  Re: In how many ways should this fail? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-30 11:07 -0500
    Re: In how many ways should this fail? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-30 11:11 -0500
    Re: In how many ways should this fail? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-01-30 17:42 +0000
  Re: In how many ways should this fail? gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 08:16 -0800
    Re: In how many ways should this fail? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-01-30 17:35 +0000
      Re: In how many ways should this fail? gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 23:47 -0800
      Re: In how many ways should this fail? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-01 00:00 -0800
        Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-02-01 12:14 +0000
          Re: In how many ways should this fail? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-01 08:04 -0500
          Re: In how many ways should this fail? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-02-01 13:31 +0000
        Re: In how many ways should this fail? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-02-01 12:59 +0000
          Re: In how many ways should this fail? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-01 08:37 -0500
            Re: In how many ways should this fail? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-02-01 16:40 +0000
              Re: In how many ways should this fail? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-01 12:13 -0500
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-08 12:49 -0800
    Re: In how many ways should this fail? Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2012-01-30 19:20 +0100
  Re: In how many ways should this fail? Devil with the China Blue Dress <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-30 08:30 -0800
    Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-30 16:43 +0000
      Re: In how many ways should this fail? Devil with the China Blue Dress <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-30 09:17 -0800
      Re: In how many ways should this fail? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-01-30 17:31 +0000
      Re: In how many ways should this fail? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-30 12:31 -0500
        Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-30 18:16 +0000
          Re: In how many ways should this fail? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-30 14:05 -0500
            Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-30 19:30 +0000
              Re: In how many ways should this fail? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-30 12:50 -0800
              Re: In how many ways should this fail? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-30 16:17 -0500
              Re: In how many ways should this fail? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-01-30 21:48 +0000
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-31 12:43 +0000
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? Zoltan Kocsi <zoltan@bendor.com.au> - 2012-02-01 00:46 +1100
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-01-31 13:57 +0000
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-31 15:05 +0000
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? Devil with the China Blue Dress <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-31 07:16 -0800
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-31 17:37 +0000
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-31 11:34 -0500
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-31 17:39 +0000
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-31 19:42 -0800
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-02-01 11:57 +0000
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-02-01 08:14 -0500
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-02-01 00:04 -0800
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-31 09:05 -0500
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? Devil with the China Blue Dress <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-31 06:45 -0800
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-31 17:34 +0000
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-31 19:26 -0800
                Re: In how many ways should this fail? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-31 19:29 -0800
        Re: In how many ways should this fail? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-01-30 21:28 +0000
  Re: In how many ways should this fail? timprince <tprince@computer.org> - 2012-01-30 11:44 -0500
    Re: In how many ways should this fail? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-01-30 17:35 +0000
  Re: In how many ways should this fail? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-01-30 17:21 +0000
    Re: In how many ways should this fail? Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2012-01-30 19:22 +0100
      Re: In how many ways should this fail? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-01-30 11:09 -0800
  Re: In how many ways should this fail? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-01-30 19:04 +0100
    Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-30 18:21 +0000
      Re: In how many ways should this fail? Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-01-30 20:15 +0100
        Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-30 19:32 +0000
          Re: In how many ways should this fail? Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-01-30 21:01 +0100
            Re: In how many ways should this fail? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-30 20:22 +0000
              Re: In how many ways should this fail? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-30 12:56 -0800
  Re: In how many ways should this fail? blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2012-01-30 10:07 -0800

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