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And

From jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject And
Date 2012-01-20 23:52 +0100
Organization lccwin
Message-ID <jfcr7q$g40$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <rubrum-05D6FB.15510218012012@news.albasani.net> <jf7st7$i9u$1@dont-email.me> <rubrum-579D41.12414020012012@news.albasani.net> <jfcp91$n7r$1@dont-email.me> <jfcq1p$sjd$1@dont-email.me>

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Le 20/01/12 23:32, James Kuyper a écrit :
>
> Let me expand upon that comment. The key reason for your unmet
> expectations in this case was the "usual arithmetic conversions"
> (6.1.3.8). Those same conversions apply to many other arithmetic
> operators: *, /, +, -,<,<=,>,>=, ==, !=, bitwise&, ^, bitwise |,
> ?:. The corresponding compound assignment operators, and the ++ and --
> operators all have their behavior defined in terms of those operator, so
> they perform the usual arithmetic conversions, too. Is the % operator
> really the only one where the usual arithmetic conversions cause a
> result that doesn't meet your expectations? That seems quite implausible
> to me.

Computer arithmetic has nothing to do with maths. For instance:

A+B is different from A for all B different than zero.

A+B is equal to A if A is a floating point number and B is smaller than
the floating point epsilon for that type.

Or A + B is different than B + A.

And I could go on for a while.

Mathematics is concerned about numbers as abstract entities that have
abstract properties that can't be reproduced in a finite machine with
a finite and time limited operator.

Those are the basics. Now, some systems like Maple or Maxima approach
MORE the maths we are used to, and should be used when you do maths.

C is a computer language that doesn't shield you from the concrete
machine you are using. It is the lowest "high level" language in
existence, always just a bit above assembler.

To expect to find here "sane" mathematical laws shows only a certain
ignorance from Mr Press, specially if he uses unsigned numbers, and
then he mixes them with negative values...

Unsigned numbers correspond to the set 0-UINT_MAX, and can't be used
with negative values. That should be obvious too but apparently
Mr Press doesn't know that. If he is disappointed with C I would
recommend him to use Maxima, a free mathematical system available
for all, written in Lisp.

jacob

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C arithmetic question. Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2012-01-18 10:32 -0800
  Re: C arithmetic question. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-18 14:03 -0500
    Re: C arithmetic question. TheGunslinger <mikiesrunsbaal.sec@sbcglobal.net> - 2012-01-18 19:30 -0800
      Re: C arithmetic question. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-19 08:10 -0500
  Re: C arithmetic question. Markus Wichmann <nullplan@gmx.net> - 2012-01-18 21:14 +0100
    Re: C arithmetic question. "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-01-19 10:44 +0000
      Re: C arithmetic question. Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2012-01-21 21:32 +0000
  Re: C arithmetic question. Peter Nilsson <airia@acay.com.au> - 2012-01-18 13:51 -0800
    Re: C arithmetic question. Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2012-01-18 15:51 -0800
      Re: C arithmetic question. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-18 20:50 -0500
        Re: C arithmetic question. Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2012-01-20 12:41 -0800
          Re: C arithmetic question. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-20 14:11 -0800
            Re: C arithmetic question. gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2012-01-20 22:43 +0000
          Re: C arithmetic question. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-20 17:19 -0500
            Re: C arithmetic question. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-20 17:32 -0500
              And jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-01-20 23:52 +0100
                Re: And Markus Wichmann <nullplan@gmx.net> - 2012-01-21 19:23 +0100
                Re: And Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-21 13:20 -0800
                Re: And jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-01-21 23:02 +0100
                Re: And Markus Wichmann <nullplan@gmx.net> - 2012-01-22 15:24 +0100
                Re: And Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-01-22 15:40 +0000
                Re: And blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2012-01-21 11:02 -0800
          Re: C arithmetic question. Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 18:53 +0000
      Re: C arithmetic question. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-01-19 02:09 +0000
      Re: C arithmetic question. Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2012-01-18 23:00 -0700
        Re: C arithmetic question. Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2012-01-18 23:14 -0800
          Re: C arithmetic question. Ike Naar <ike@sverige.freeshell.org> - 2012-01-19 08:41 +0000
            Re: C arithmetic question. Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2012-01-20 12:43 -0800
              Re: C arithmetic question. Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-01-20 22:17 +0000
                Re: C arithmetic question. Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2012-01-21 00:12 -0800
              Re: C arithmetic question. Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2012-01-21 21:32 +0000
                Re: C arithmetic question. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-01-21 23:21 +0000
                Re: C arithmetic question. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-22 00:48 -0600
                Re: C arithmetic question. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-01-22 11:45 +0000
                Re: C arithmetic question. Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-01-22 21:46 -0600
                Re: C arithmetic question. Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-01-23 04:17 +0000
                Re: C arithmetic question. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-01-23 11:19 +0000
                Re: C arithmetic question. Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-26 10:41 -0800
                Re: C arithmetic question. Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2012-01-23 07:58 +0000
                Re: C arithmetic question. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-01-23 11:06 +0000
                Re: C arithmetic question. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-23 07:03 -0500
                Re: C arithmetic question. Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-01-23 17:27 +0000
          Re: C arithmetic question. Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-19 02:38 -0800
            Re: C arithmetic question. Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2012-01-20 07:30 +0000
          Re: C arithmetic question. Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2012-01-19 12:28 +0100
            Re: C arithmetic question. Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2012-01-20 12:44 -0800
              Re: C arithmetic question. 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-01-20 13:14 -0800
          Re: C arithmetic question. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-19 08:45 -0500
          Re: C arithmetic question. Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 08:14 -0800
            Re: C arithmetic question. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-24 12:15 -0500
              Re: C arithmetic question. Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 09:26 -0800
                Re: C arithmetic question. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-24 12:39 -0500
                Re: C arithmetic question. Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 10:03 -0800
                Re: C arithmetic question. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-24 13:23 -0500
                Re: C arithmetic question. Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 10:40 -0800
                Re: C arithmetic question. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-24 14:35 -0500
                Re: C arithmetic question. Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 12:04 -0800
                Re: C arithmetic question. Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 12:02 -0800
                Re: C arithmetic question. Kleuske <kleuske@nowhere.net> - 2012-01-24 20:26 +0000
                Re: C arithmetic question. Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 13:45 -0800
                Re: C arithmetic question. James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-01-24 15:40 -0500
                Re: C arithmetic question. Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 12:09 -0800
      Re: C arithmetic question. Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-01-24 18:48 +0000
    Re: C arithmetic question. "osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2012-01-19 08:12 -0600
  Re: C arithmetic question. Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-01-20 15:33 -0800
    Re: C arithmetic question. Kleuske <kleuske@nowhere.net> - 2012-01-27 08:17 +0000
      Re: C arithmetic question. Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-01-27 13:37 -0800

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