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Re: information theory?

From robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com>
Newsgroups comp.dsp
Subject Re: information theory?
Date 2011-11-01 16:04 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <j8pjcs$4fe$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <7f70f946-bf5b-4546-a232-5b7353a542cd@u37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <4eaf7bf5.547777542@www.eternal-september.org> <5b93b1ba-5a4b-48eb-ba30-1ff212fd7839@f36g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> <9cd896f5-11aa-4600-82c6-a1cb0966f956@j36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

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On 11/1/11 1:29 PM, RichD wrote:
> On Nov 1, Chris<chris.sant...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> Do you have a specific question? Or just want to lurk and learn?
>
> I'd like to lurk someplace, where there are discussions
> of current topics.  It's such a rich field, there are always
> new ideas.
>
>> Information Theory was the hardest class I took in grad school. So
>> abstract, and so much probability.... but it's a cool topic
>> nonetheless.
>
> I read Shannon's paper long go, and found it fascinating
> ever since.  In the most general sense, it's applicable
> to so many areas.  For instance, people have recast
> thermodynamics as information processing.

even though i have a *feel* for the connection to thermodynamic entropy, 
i really do not understand what the mathematical connection is between

     SUM{ p{M_i} * I{M_i} }
      i

where M_i = the i_th message
p{M_i} is the probability of the i_th message
I{M_i} is the information content of the i_th message and is equal to

     -log( p{M_i} )

(the base of the log only changes the units that information is measured 
with.  log2() means information measured in "bits".)

now how is that above summation related to thermodynamic entropy which is

     integral{ 1/T dQ}

i wouldn't mind seeing the connection here.  perhaps glen or Clay (who 
are the other physikers hanging here?) might have an answer.


>  Or, you
> could model the entire universe as a computer, and
> information theory applies.  It even describes human
> nature - manipulating symbols is what separates us
> from the apes.

oh, i dunno.  that sounds like the kinda stuff we talk about as we sit 
around picking our noses.  apes don't manipulate signals?


-- 

r b-j                  rbj@audioimagination.com

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

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Thread

information theory? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2011-10-31 20:55 -0700
  Re: information theory? eric.jacobsen@ieee.org (Eric Jacobsen) - 2011-11-01 04:57 +0000
    Re: information theory? Chris <chris.santoro@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 05:58 -0700
      Re: information theory? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2011-11-01 10:29 -0700
        Re: information theory? jim <retnuh2011@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 11:13 -0700
          Re: information theory? jim <retnuh2011@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 14:39 -0700
        Re: information theory? robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2011-11-01 16:04 -0400
          OT: information theory? Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> - 2011-11-01 18:06 -0400
          Re: information theory? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-11-01 22:46 +0000
        Re: information theory? "BJACOBY@teranews.com" <benj@iwaynet.net> - 2011-11-01 22:38 -0500
          Re: information theory? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2011-11-02 17:06 -0500
            Re: information theory? "steveu" <steveu@n_o_s_p_a_m.coppice.org> - 2011-11-02 19:41 -0500
            Re: information theory? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2011-11-03 06:58 -0500
              Re: information theory? "GO-HERE .NL" <gdewilde@gmail.com> - 2011-11-03 08:57 -0700
          Re: information theory? Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 19:44 -0500
            Re: information theory? "Christopher J. Henrich" <chenrich@monmouth.com> - 2011-11-02 22:40 -0400
              Re: information theory? Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2011-11-03 23:21 -0500
        Re: information theory? Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2011-11-02 08:47 +0000
          Re: information theory? (copyright question followup) JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2011-11-02 09:48 +0000
            Re: information theory? (copyright question followup) Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2011-11-02 10:02 +0000
              Re: information theory? (copyright question followup) Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2011-11-02 16:46 +0000
              Re: information theory? (copyright question followup) Bernd Jendrissek <bernd.jendrissek@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 15:04 -0700
            Re: information theory? (copyright question followup) David Eather <eather@tpg.com.au> - 2011-11-03 04:00 +1000
              Re: information theory? (copyright question followup) unruh <unruh@physics.ubc.ca> - 2011-11-02 19:05 +0000
            Re: information theory? (copyright question followup) "J. Clarke" <jclarkeusenet@cox.net> - 2011-11-24 08:42 -0500
              Re: information theory? (copyright question followup) Richard Outerbridge <outer@interlog.com> - 2011-11-25 01:37 -0500
                Re: information theory? (copyright question followup) Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2011-11-25 11:37 -0600
          Re: information theory? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2011-11-02 11:38 -0700
            Re: information theory? Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2011-11-03 08:51 +0000
        Re: information theory? Chris <chris.santoro@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 08:02 -0700
          Re: information theory? robert bristow-johnson <rbj@audioimagination.com> - 2011-11-02 09:38 -0700
          Re: information theory? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2011-11-02 11:51 -0700
            Re: information theory? VWWall <vwall@large.invalid> - 2011-11-02 15:08 -0700
              Re: information theory? Richard Outerbridge <outer@interlog.com> - 2011-11-02 19:59 -0400
                Re: information theory? Frederick Williams <freddywilliams@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-04 20:41 +0000
                Re: information theory? "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> - 2011-11-04 16:59 -0500
                Re: information theory? jim <retnuh2011@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 15:28 -0700
                Re: information theory? Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> - 2011-11-04 21:09 -0400
                Re: information theory? ggr@nope.ucsd.edu (Greg Rose) - 2011-11-05 02:11 +0000
                Re: information theory? Frederick Williams <freddywilliams@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-05 11:53 +0000
                Re: information theory? "Mike Terry" <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2011-11-05 17:32 +0000
                Re: information theory? jim <retnuh2011@gmail.com> - 2011-11-06 18:41 -0800
              Re: information theory? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2011-11-03 21:54 -0700
                Re: information theory? "BJACOBY@teranews.com" <benj@iwaynet.net> - 2011-11-04 03:42 -0500
                Re: information theory? "Peter Webb" <webbfamily@optusnetDIESPAMDIE.com.au> - 2011-11-04 20:33 +1100
                Re: information theory? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-11-04 05:10 -0500
                Re: information theory? kym@kymhorsell.com - 2011-11-04 10:50 +0000
                Re: information theory? "Peter Webb" <webbfamily@optusnetDIESPAMDIE.com.au> - 2011-11-04 22:14 +1100
                Re: information theory? "Jesse F. Hughes" <jesse@phiwumbda.org> - 2011-11-04 09:13 -0400
                Re: information theory? Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2011-11-04 10:32 -0400
                Re: information theory? "Androcles" <Headmaster@Hogwarts.physics.October.2011> - 2011-11-04 18:02 +0000
                Re: information theory? jim <retnuh2011@gmail.com> - 2011-11-07 15:54 -0800
                Re: information theory? VWWall <vwall@large.invalid> - 2011-11-04 09:50 -0700
                Re: information theory? jim <retnuh2011@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 12:41 -0700
                Re: information theory? jim <retnuh2011@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 13:40 -0700
                Re: information theory? "Androcles" <Headmaster@Hogwarts.physics.October.2011> - 2011-11-04 11:35 +0000
                Re: information theory? Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2011-11-04 10:31 +0000
                Re: information theory? "Peter Webb" <webbfamily@optusnetDIESPAMDIE.com.au> - 2011-11-04 21:51 +1100
                Re: information theory? "BJACOBY@teranews.com" <benj@iwaynet.net> - 2011-11-04 14:18 -0500
                Re: information theory? Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> - 2011-11-04 15:56 -0400
                Re: information theory? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-21 17:49 -0800
                Re: information theory? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2011-12-21 20:07 -0600
                Re: information theory? Richard Outerbridge <outer@interlog.com> - 2011-12-22 03:08 -0500
                Re: information theory? Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> - 2011-12-22 08:30 +0000
                Re: information theory? John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> - 2011-12-22 10:12 +0000
                Re: information theory? "Peter Webb" <r.peter.webbbbb@gmail.com> - 2011-12-22 21:14 +1100
                Re: information theory? "Androcles" <Headmaster@Hogwarts.physics.October.2011> - 2011-11-04 11:00 +0000
                Re: information theory? Casper H.S. Dik <Casper.Dik@OrSPaMcle.COM> - 2011-11-04 09:45 +0000
                Re: information theory? unruh <unruh@physics.ubc.ca> - 2011-11-04 19:05 +0000
              Re: information theory? jim <retnuh2011@gmail.com> - 2011-11-06 17:11 -0800
                Re: information theory? jim <retnuh2011@gmail.com> - 2011-11-07 06:23 -0800
                Re: information theory? jim <retnuh2011@gmail.com> - 2011-11-07 11:29 -0800
                Re: information theory? jim <retnuh2011@gmail.com> - 2011-11-08 04:41 -0800
                Re: information theory? "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2011-11-08 13:46 -0500
            Re: information theory? "BJACOBY@teranews.com" <benj@iwaynet.net> - 2011-11-03 03:32 -0500
            Re: information theory? Chris <chris.santoro@gmail.com> - 2011-11-03 08:39 -0700
            Re: information theory? Chris <chris.santoro@gmail.com> - 2011-11-03 08:28 -0700

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