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Groups > comp.lang.c > #9237

Re: Too bad this group is gone

From "J. J. Farrell" <jjf@bcs.org.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Too bad this group is gone
Date 2011-08-12 04:36 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <j2273f$c53$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <j1ub3s$oee$1@reader1.panix.com> <j1udml$s12$1@dont-email.me> <j1ufaj$92m$1@reader1.panix.com> <j1vnga$1nn$1@dont-email.me> <j20h88$bec$1@dont-email.me>

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James Kuyper wrote:
> On 08/11/2011 12:58 AM, Jed wrote:
>> "John Gordon" <gordon@panix.com> wrote in message 
>> news:j1ufaj$92m$1@reader1.panix.com...
>>> In <j1udml$s12$1@dont-email.me> "Jed" <jehdiah@orbitway.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> "usenet groups" vs. "community sites". What should we make of your 
>>>> choice
>>>> of words?
>>> I don't understand your comment.  Was my "choice of words" unclear in 
>>> some
>>> way?  Do you not understand what I mean by "usenet groups" or 
>>> "community
>>> sites"?
>> Do you understand what you meant by those? Did you think about them at 
>> all before you selected them?
> 
> I would assume, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that the
> answers to both questions are yes. The fact that you bothered to ask
> suggests that you've seen something that you do consider "evidence to
> the contrary". Could you explain what that evidence was?
> 
>>> If you don't understand or don't like the terms, it would be much more
>>> productive for you to say so and then go on to explain why, instead of
>>> making vague comments about word choices.
>> What is vague about wondering (I wasn't really asking a question) if you 
>> recognized the potential connotations of the words your choose (and I 
> 
> They carry no special connotations that I'm aware of. "usenet news
> groups" is the single most complete and accurate name I know of for the
> thing described by that phrase, and carries no special connotations that
> I'm aware of. Shortening the phrase by removing the word "news" doesn't
> introduce any significant connotations that I'm aware of. It removes the
> concept that usenet is a medium for conveying news, which seems
> appropriate, because most usenet groups, like this one, are more about
> discussion than news. I suppose it might have been different in the days
> when the term "news group" was first invented.
> 
> The term "community sites" is less conventional, but as far as I know,
> there is no specific widely known term for the kinds of web sites he's
> describing. "sites" is clearly just short for "web sites", and doesn't
> convey any special connotations that I'm aware of. They are web sites
> where a community of people work together to try to answer questions,
> which is probably where he got the "community" from. I suppose that the
> term "community" conveys a little bit of a "warm and fuzzy" connotation,
> but one that I think is intrinsic to the very nature of those sites.
> 
>> singled them out) and whether you thought long and hard about the choice 
>> of words or just used "any old words"? Quite relevant and valid a 
>> wondering considering that the discussion is about the merits of two 
>> different avenues for threaded textual communication and that you chose 
>> the words you did to describe them.
>>
>> So, just wondering is all.
> 
> It would help a great deal to understand what it is you're wondering
> about, if you could tell us what unintended connotations you're reading
> into those phrases. Another thing that would help is suggestions for
> alternative phrasing that does not, in your opinion, carry those
> connotations (possibly by reason of carrying contrary connotations).
> 
> That's why I asked you early to provide examples of such alternatives -
> and I'm still waiting.

You seem to be making heavy weather of this. Kenny hit the nail on the 
head (good grief, did I really just say that) and described it well. 
"Community sites" seemed an odd term, not a standard one as far as I'm 
aware, and I had to think briefly to realise what was meant. It looked 
like it might have been very deliberately chosen. The term "community" 
is often used as a "warm and fuzzy" implying something good we should 
all approve of.

Like Jed, I also wondered whether or not it was deliberately attached to 
the web sites under discussion, and not the Usenet groups, as a means of 
influencing the discussion.

It could be entirely innocent, since almost all Usenet groups are 
communities more or less by definition but the same is not true of web 
sites - it's essentially redundant to say "community Usenet groups" 
whereas "community web sites" distinguishes these from other sorts of 
web sites.

On the other hand it could have been an attempt to sway the argument 
since, in context, we all know what type of web sites are being 
discussed, but calling them "community" websites hints at a warm and 
welcoming friendliness to be found there as opposed to those nasty old 
"not community" newsgroups.

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Thread

Too bad this group is gone "BarryG" <barryg2@peoplepc.com> - 2011-08-06 23:55 -0500
  Re: Too bad this group is gone Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-08-06 23:44 -0600
  Re: Too bad this group is gone cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-08-07 20:38 +0000
    Re: Too bad this group is gone "osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2011-08-07 16:13 -0500
      Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-07 18:28 -0400
      Re: Too bad this group is gone Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-08-08 09:53 -0400
  Re: Too bad this group is gone jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-08 00:16 +0200
    Re: Too bad this group is gone August Karlstrom <fusionfile@gmail.com> - 2011-08-08 00:40 +0200
      Re: Too bad this group is gone jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-08 10:05 +0200
        Re: Too bad this group is gone Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-08-08 12:51 +0100
  Re: Too bad this group is gone Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-08-08 10:17 +0200
    Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-08 14:25 +0100
      Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-08 14:22 +0000
        Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-08 17:30 +0100
          Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-08 17:04 +0000
            Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-08 19:10 +0100
              Re: Too bad this group is gone Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-08-08 18:38 +0000
              Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-08 20:38 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-08-08 20:43 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 16:02 +0100
              Re: Too bad this group is gone Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-08-09 00:15 +0200
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 15:44 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-09 08:07 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 20:20 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-09 12:42 -0700
          Re: Too bad this group is gone Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-08-08 23:50 +0200
            Re: Too bad this group is gone Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-09 10:08 +1200
              Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-08 18:18 -0400
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 15:33 +0100
              Re: Too bad this group is gone blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2011-08-08 15:23 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 15:20 +0100
            Re: Too bad this group is gone jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2011-08-08 23:18 +0000
              Re: Too bad this group is gone Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 05:06 +0000
              Re: Too bad this group is gone Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-08-09 11:11 +0200
            Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 15:01 +0100
              Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-09 14:23 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-08-09 14:53 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-09 17:45 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 20:51 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-09 20:23 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-08-10 07:27 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 22:02 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-12 22:28 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 11:16 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-10 14:59 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-10 11:30 -0400
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-10 16:20 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-10 13:14 -0400
                Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-11 08:00 -0400
                Re: Too bad this group is gone gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-08-11 12:13 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-12 00:06 -0400
                Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-12 00:39 -0400
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-10 17:32 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-08-10 23:14 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-11 14:02 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 21:49 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-12 21:14 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-12 17:49 -0400
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-08-13 01:46 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 09:19 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-13 08:39 -0400
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-13 16:34 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-13 20:18 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-18 06:34 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-18 12:20 +0300
                Re: Too bad this group is gone BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-18 17:36 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-18 07:10 -0400
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-13 16:39 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-13 20:15 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-13 18:21 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone "J. J. Farrell" <jjf@bcs.org.uk> - 2011-08-12 04:36 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-12 00:03 -0400
                Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-13 15:29 -0400
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-14 04:26 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 20:51 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone "J. J. Farrell" <jjf@bcs.org.uk> - 2011-08-14 03:15 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-14 02:29 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-14 05:48 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-14 06:24 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-08-14 08:12 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-14 04:39 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-14 11:36 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-10 17:55 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 16:43 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-09 17:47 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-09 18:26 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 21:13 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 20:42 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-08-09 19:54 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 21:11 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-08-12 20:25 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 22:41 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-09 11:28 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 20:38 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-09 19:59 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-08-09 20:01 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-08-09 22:42 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-09 13:16 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-10 12:12 +0200
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-10 08:44 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-10 11:36 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 23:11 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-11 15:05 +0200
                Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-11 08:43 -0400
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-11 08:02 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-08-10 10:39 -0600
                Re: Too bad this group is gone gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-08-11 03:47 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-08-11 00:33 +0200
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 20:57 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 20:40 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-12 20:14 +0000
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-12 13:51 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 22:12 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-08-13 01:42 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 23:52 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-08-14 00:35 +0100
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-13 18:23 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone gordonb.mbkym@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-08-10 20:50 -0500
                Re: Too bad this group is gone gordonb.6v878@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-08-11 03:34 -0500
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-11 08:23 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-10 03:16 -0700
          Re: Too bad this group is gone John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 11:12 -0700
            Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 20:15 +0100
              Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-12 20:07 +0000
              Re: Too bad this group is gone Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 20:39 +0000
              Re: Too bad this group is gone John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 08:00 -0700
                Re: Too bad this group is gone gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-08-15 17:03 +0000

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