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| From | jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Too bad this group is gone |
| Date | 2011-08-08 23:18 +0000 |
| Organization | Freie Universitaet Berlin |
| Message-ID | <9ab95aF6e4U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> (permalink) |
| References | (1 earlier) <4E3F9B9C.7030507@loria.fr> <4e3fe6b5$0$9121$a729d347@news.telepac.pt> <j1orfr$rc7$1@reader1.panix.com> <4e401210$0$9122$a729d347@news.telepac.pt> <4E405A22.20006@loria.fr> |
Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> wrote:
> Am 08/08/2011 06:30 PM, schrieb Rui Maciel:
> > So, what exactly is there to be gained?
> avoid endless discussions like this one?
My aplogies that I continue it anyway;-)
> what I mean by that is that everyone explains his point, eventually
> edits it if necessary and that's it. No need of seeking threads and
> extracting information spread over hundreds of posts, where people bark
> at each other, or insult the less knowledgable, or the less English
> capable, or divert on the economic crisis, or are simply rude or only
> impolite.
My feeling is that this more an issue with inferior tools
for reading newsgroups on the one hand and different ex-
pectations of "getting things done".
With a decent newsreader (NOT google) it's rather easy to
killfile the worst offenders, which often gets rid of a lot
of annoyances (not all, of course, but a good deal of them).
And having a threading newsreader also helps quite a bit to
skip the parts of a discussion one isn't interested in.
But the more important point to me is that "getting some-
thing done now" is only one part of the problem. Of course,
when I am stuck I would like the answer as soon as pos-
sible to be able continue. But that's only one side of the
coin. I typically don't read a newsgroup just because I am
waiting for my specific question to become answered but much
more often to further my education, reading about topics
I may never have considered before - and then I am more in-
terested in the discussions, descriptions of how things work
on different architectures, different interpretations of
the standards etc., than straight, simple answers to a
certain question. I.e. the discussions, even if they some-
times may stray into regions I don't care about too much,
are what makes usenet so valuable in my point of view.
The fixation on "here's a question, who's coming up first
with the answer that directly addresses it" which I feel
to dominate stack overflow and similar sites is for me not
what makes them really helpful. To me it feels a bit like
the help function in Windows where you search for some-
thing and may find a recipe for your specific question
(which is quite fine if you're really in a hurry) but
normally leaves me with the feeling that, while if I do
exactly what's written there it usually works, I still
don't understand why this method works but others don't,
i.e. it tells me how to do something but not why.
Or, to give a different example: I like cooking. Of course,
I look up recipes on the internet for new ideas. And, if I
want to do e.g. a roastbeef just right, I can follow a re-
cipe that gives me detailed instructions in the form of a
rather simple "algorithm". That can be fine (and rather
satisfying) if it works. But my experience is (in cooking
as in programming) that this isn't always the case. And thus
I am much more interested in the reasons behind a recipe (e.
g. the chemistry of cooking etc.) than just an "algorithm"
I have to follow religiously. Moreover, with an understanding
of what's going on I have a much better chance at solving
similar but different problems, allowing me to consider
alternatives or make educated guesses when I am confronted
with recipes that seem to contradict each other.
For one one of the best examples of how this can work try to
find postings by Chris Torek (just as a especially shining
example, there were and are others) to questions in this
group) - they are going to be from a few years back. When
he answered a question the answer typically was really long,
going into all kinds of details of how things were implemen-
ted on all kinds of architectures, what pitfalls to look out
for etc. This weren't answers that gave just a solution for
the problem at hand but which told you why certain things
work, why others don't and some others only do so on certain
systems. This may be maddening for someone who doesn't really
care why or why not something works and just wants to get
"it done", but for those a bit more interested into solving
problems on their own those answers were invaluable. And I
doubt quite a bit that someone like Chris Torek would fit in
well into e.g. stackoverflow where the emphasis seems to be
more on recipes and less on explanations.
Regards, Jens
--
\ Jens Thoms Toerring ___ jt@toerring.de
\__________________________ http://toerring.de
Back to comp.lang.c | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Too bad this group is gone "BarryG" <barryg2@peoplepc.com> - 2011-08-06 23:55 -0500
Re: Too bad this group is gone Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-08-06 23:44 -0600
Re: Too bad this group is gone cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-08-07 20:38 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone "osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2011-08-07 16:13 -0500
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-07 18:28 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2011-08-08 09:53 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-08 00:16 +0200
Re: Too bad this group is gone August Karlstrom <fusionfile@gmail.com> - 2011-08-08 00:40 +0200
Re: Too bad this group is gone jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-08 10:05 +0200
Re: Too bad this group is gone Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-08-08 12:51 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-08-08 10:17 +0200
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-08 14:25 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-08 14:22 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-08 17:30 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-08 17:04 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-08 19:10 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-08-08 18:38 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-08 20:38 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-08-08 20:43 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 16:02 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-08-09 00:15 +0200
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 15:44 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-09 08:07 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 20:20 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-09 12:42 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-08-08 23:50 +0200
Re: Too bad this group is gone Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-09 10:08 +1200
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-08 18:18 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 15:33 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone blp@cs.stanford.edu (Ben Pfaff) - 2011-08-08 15:23 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 15:20 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2011-08-08 23:18 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 05:06 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-08-09 11:11 +0200
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 15:01 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-09 14:23 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-08-09 14:53 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-09 17:45 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 20:51 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-09 20:23 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-08-10 07:27 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 22:02 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-12 22:28 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 11:16 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-10 14:59 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-10 11:30 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-10 16:20 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-10 13:14 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-11 08:00 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-08-11 12:13 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-12 00:06 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-12 00:39 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-10 17:32 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-08-10 23:14 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-11 14:02 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 21:49 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-12 21:14 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-12 17:49 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-08-13 01:46 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 09:19 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-13 08:39 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-13 16:34 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-13 20:18 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-18 06:34 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-18 12:20 +0300
Re: Too bad this group is gone BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-18 17:36 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-18 07:10 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-13 16:39 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-13 20:15 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-13 18:21 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone "J. J. Farrell" <jjf@bcs.org.uk> - 2011-08-12 04:36 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-12 00:03 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-13 15:29 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-14 04:26 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 20:51 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone "J. J. Farrell" <jjf@bcs.org.uk> - 2011-08-14 03:15 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-14 02:29 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-14 05:48 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-14 06:24 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-08-14 08:12 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-14 04:39 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-14 11:36 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-10 17:55 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 16:43 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-09 17:47 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-09 18:26 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 21:13 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 20:42 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-08-09 19:54 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 21:11 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-08-12 20:25 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 22:41 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-09 11:28 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-09 20:38 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-09 19:59 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-08-09 20:01 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-08-09 22:42 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-09 13:16 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-10 12:12 +0200
Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-10 08:44 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-10 11:36 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty@gmail.com> - 2011-08-10 23:11 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-11 15:05 +0200
Re: Too bad this group is gone James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-08-11 08:43 -0400
Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-11 08:02 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2011-08-10 10:39 -0600
Re: Too bad this group is gone gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-08-11 03:47 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-08-11 00:33 +0200
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 20:57 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 20:40 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-12 20:14 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-12 13:51 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 22:12 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-08-13 01:42 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-13 23:52 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-08-14 00:35 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-13 18:23 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone gordonb.mbkym@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-08-10 20:50 -0500
Re: Too bad this group is gone gordonb.6v878@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-08-11 03:34 -0500
Re: Too bad this group is gone Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-08-11 08:23 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-10 03:16 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2011-08-11 11:12 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-08-12 20:15 +0100
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-08-12 20:07 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-08-12 20:39 +0000
Re: Too bad this group is gone John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2011-08-15 08:00 -0700
Re: Too bad this group is gone gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-08-15 17:03 +0000
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